CL’s Guide to Decatur & Avondale Estates for 2013
Decatur Metro | March 29, 2013 | 2:11 pmThis year’s Creative Loafing neighborhood guide groups Decatur & Avondale Estates together. It consists of three parts:
- a short overview of “arguably metro Atlanta’s most desired suburb”
- an interview with the Brick Store’s Dave Blanchard (why didn’t they ask about the status of the Depot??)
- A “wish list” for the cities compiled from residents
Interesting how CL groups Decatur/Avondale Estates/Oakhurst together. I do remember a time when I first moved to the City of Decatur and was surprised to find out that Oakhurst wasn’t its own city. But I didn’t realize that anyone still would distinguish it from “Decatur”. And I’ve never identified with Avondale Estates much although I used to love to eat at the old Avondale Pizza location. It used
As an AE resident, this is cracking me up Hahahahaha!
I totally agree about the last comment with the cops in AE. I was just thinking this afternoon actually that I would never open a bar in AE simply for that reason. I take my kid to school every morning/afternoon and I’ve never seen enforcement like that in my life. Way over the top.
Seriously solid traffic enforcement reduces violent crime. Covington Highway/East College through Avondale Estates is a federal highway, a state highway, a DeKalb County truck route, and easy access for criminals and non-criminals alike to/from Memorial and I-285 into Avondale and Decatur. The Avondale police cars parked in the median are probably running tags with the new tag reader previously reported in Patch. Both Avondale and Decatur benefit from Avondale’s traffic enforcement efforts. And, traffic calming on this road in support of reddevelopment will require the cooperation of many partners, particularly GDOT.
I disagree with you. Avondale has problems much more concerning than the possibility that criminals might be driving through. For instance, there have been more burglaries than anyone would like to see over the last year, with several of them occurring in broad daylight. Why we dedicate an officer to sitting in the median when more serious crimes are happening in the neighborhood is quite beyond me. Oh wait — I forgot, they’re mostly out there to raise revenue as opposed to fighting real crime. As they say, follow the money.
Moreover, I’d be interested to see some sort of evaluation of the efficacy of randomly scanning every single license plate as a means of catching criminals. It doesn’t strike me as likely to be particularly effective, especially when the criminals know — as they now undoubtedly do — that driving down Covington Highway carries a high likelihood of a scan. There are plenty of other ways to get to 285 and Memorial.
Surprisingly, I agree with you. It is about revenue.
where is my snooty keyboard?
ah here we go
I can’t believe we were grouped with Avondale! They have a distinct lack of snootiness!
For Shame CL!
Actually, the snootiness begins in AE and weakens as it travels towards us. Seriously.
huh?
I think the comment is self explanatory. No “HUH?” needed.
Agreed. Evidence: Avondale neighbors were too snooty to allow a dog park at any of about 10 places in their town, lest unknown “others” may walk by their homes. They couldn’t figure out a “safe” place for a dog park after being offered many alternatives, so they won’t get one. Classic Avondale.
I will never forget the polka dotted house.
It was recently up for sale and may still be available. You could own the famous polka-dotted house!
I may not know the entire history, but the last proposal for a dog park in Avondale was to dedicate a large portion of our existing park to dogs at an insane expense of several hundred thousand dollars. It was rightly defeated. Not to say there may not be other alternatives.
Your larger point has something to it, though. I think the best example is the pool (which is generally pretty awesome). You can’t join unless you live in a single family home within the city. I was pretty shocked by that one.
NO WAY! That is shocking. I just remember school issues back in the 90s that were pretty elitist. That basically reinforces my impression.
I guess it is more accurate to say the small areas in town that have condominiums are specifically carved out of the areas eligible for membership. Pretty close to the same thing.
http://www.myastc.com/pages/approvedareas.html
Do the condo owners pay property tax? Is the pool in any way paid for out of tax revenue? How is this even legal?
As far as I know it is a membership only club. There is a membership fee, which is over $500/year for a family, and the club defines the eligibility criteria. I find it odd that we’d eliminate the condos but have nothing against the club defining its criteria as it sees fit, as a general matter.
I went and read through the site. It looks as though there are a few house numbers that have been left off as well.
I’m not sure you know any of the history. I am guessing the dog park plan you are referring to that would cost ‘several hundred thousand dollars’ is the one in Willis Park, and that plan was actually presented by the Willis Park committee that was tasked with redesigning the whole park, which included replacing the existing playground equipment as well as a lot of landscaping that did not involve the dog park portion. In that plan, the dog park was a very minor expense as it mostly consisted of a fence, some ground cover and some watering stations. The other proposed locations involved more drastic development needs (undoing years of dumping in the bird sanctuary or clearing out woods abutting the bird sanctuary). But you are correct that it is a sorry statement about the current Mayor and Commissioners that the whole thing was scrapped simply because there were some vocal opponents who believe dog parks should not be in residential areas despite plenty of fine examples in Decatur, Clarksdale, and other nearby cities/neighborhoods. Still, I wouldn’t attribute that to snootiness. Just a ridiculous fear of action and lack of vision.
Oops. Just realized it was actually Warren Buffett who correctly criticized AE for their failure to get a dog park based on what I believe was a vocal minority of naysayers. Sorry for crediting the wrong party for correctness. But, I still maintain it was a failure of the Mayor and Commissioners and not evidence of snootiness.
Maybe the mayor and commissioners are snooty 😉
Not to be a pedant or maybe to be a pedant, but both places are cities, not suburbs. They are satellite cities of the central city in our metro area. I hate when journalists forget it. It has implications for how people think and talk about cities and suburbs, especially in metro Atlanta. OK I’m now off my soapbox. One more thing, I will never support incorporation of unincorporated north DeKalb, where I live.
Nick Purdy and Dave Blanchard are right about the college ave corridor is a major impediment to AE’s redevelopment.
I find this little article odd. I am not really sure why the article was framed as it was and why the two cities were lumped together. I have worked with Max Blau IRL on other articles and was surprised to see his byline.
whoops, your snooty-ness is showing!
No, actually, the fact that the article conflates two completely different cities as if they were one means the article really doesn’t make much sense.
Tell it to Minneapolis-St. Paul.
spreak, you know what? I think your point is valid, but I was mainly speaking of driving through the neighborhoods and not really College. Guess that partly makes my comment less sensical since most people at a bar/restaurant wouldn’t really drive through there. I haven’t really seen too many pullovers on College in the 10 years I’ve driven that road (every day to work). However, inside the community I’ve never seen such enforcement as they have. Maybe the people who live there like it, but at the same time it seems like overkill. I watched someone get pulled over for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign recenlty and the way the cop flew around the corner to give a citiation was so much more dangerous than anything that driver did. I’m very grateful for the work our police do, but less so over agressive nitpicks.
I have been here since the 1980s and there used to be a couple of cool hang out places in Avondale (anyone remember Ava and the Towne Cinema?), so at one point with the Freight Room, Avondale Towne Cinema and the real Tracksides (not J_T’s modern version) there were some bars to hit on College. Avondale police always were like that. When I was a teen, I remember Decatur police being much more “nitpicky” as well. For small, quiet places, tickets are a good revenue stream.
Not only do I remember Ava and David and the Towne Cinema, I have the honor of having been banned from there. Which, in the late 80s, carried some level of cache for an idiot youngster such as myself.
I never got banned but I was totally underage and getting away with it!
Rest assured that not all of the people who live here like the overzealous enforcement. That said, Decatur police can be the same, and it has not stopped the city’s development.
David – we are in agreement – your comment about development on College and bars did not seem linked in any way to traffic enforcement in the residential areas. I don’t think anyone would have made that connection- thanks for the clarification.
There are a lot of distinct neighborhoods/cities lumped together in this neighborhood guide. I don’t think it’s a problem of journalism, just an easy way to distribute information. I hate to admit it, but if AE wasn’t lumped in with Decatur, there wouldn’t be much reason to list it. On the other hand, Decatur does benefit from some of our businesses (Pine Street Market, for one) and definitely benefits from our residents making that trek to our hipper sister city for shopping and/or dinner. I just wish Dave Blanchard and his gang would decide to focus on developing something in his backyard instead of crossing that great divide that is the portion of College Ave. once known as No Man’s Land before the great annexation (he is right that it does hinder development) and opening more places in Decatur. Although I am looking forward to whatever they do with the old depot!
Pine Street Market is indeed a mighty asset for those of us on the Decatur side of the line and I’m also very much looking forward to both the pending Palookaville and the where-the-hell-is-it Wild Heaven Brewery.
If the city’s leadership can stop acting like officers of a subdivision HOA, AE may just have its day in the sun. So far, everything cool (Rail Arts and Art-B-Que among them) seems to have occurred more in spite of local leadership than because of it.
“If the city’s leadership can stop acting like officers of a subdivision HOA….” genius
Genius and, sadly, very accurate. I may have to borrow this description!
“Decatur and Avondale were pretty much as bad as they could be 15 years ago. And talk about [the difference now] … You got to remember, Decatur [had] nothing in every single storefront.”
That’s an offensive comment. Really? Nothing? Fifteen years ago we had plenty of nice shops, like Final Touch, By Hand South, 17 Steps, Rue de Leon, the five and dime on the Square, All things Vintage on Church, the Family Jewels, Emile Baran, Neese’s Needlework, Harris Teeter, and more. We had restaurants like Micks from the Peasant chain, which was pretty leading edge for Atlanta at the time, The Food Business, Our Way Cafe, Square Table, the Supper Club, Ya Yas, Steve’s Ice Cream, Shield’s Market, to name a few more. The restaurant and music venue in the old depot, Eddie’s, the Dairy Queen, and Trackside Tavern.
We had the Arts Festival and concerts on the square, the Fourth of July parade, the Christmas tree lighting on the Fidelity building the day after Thanksgiving, the Christmas Tour of Homes, the Garden Tour, the Irish here for the Olympics, hometown heroes, an excellent school system, the Decatur Rec sports programs, and plenty more. Do people really think there was no Decatur before the Brick Store?
Yes, they do.
Narrative fallacy, my favorite new expression.
Narrative fallacy is creating a story to explain an otherwise disconnected pattern of facts. I think Cranky is referring to something entirely different: the phenomenon, all too common IMO, of newcomers thinking that everything meaningful started happening around the time they started paying attention. It’s annoying and makes me wish I knew a good emoticon for eye-rolling. (Although I think emoticons are rhetorical crutches and try to resist using them.)
I think both are true. Folks think life begins with them and then they weave a story that fits the selective facts that fit their own agenda. Of course, I have to watch out for my own fallacy “In the good old days…..”
Not quite. The official definition from Nassim Talab is “our need to fit a story or pattern to a series of connected or disconnected facts. The statistical application is data mining.”
It doesn’t matter whether you or I believe the facts are connected or disconnected. It’s mainly about our tendency to more easily believe “facts” that have a good story built around them.
OK, I stand corrected. I also stand by my assertion that what Cranky is talking about it is not “narrative fallacy.” It’s just plain, old self-involvement and tone-deafness. Children think life begins with them, but adults have presumably outgrown the tendency.
Right. Even if you wanted to see it through that lens, you’d have to recognize everyone’s perception as narrative fallacy. And I think one of the best ways to deal with inevitable narrative fallacy is to smash them all together and see what happens.
That’s also how you make a Long Island Iced Tea.
” smash them all together and see what happens.” — I have no earthly idea what you’re talking about. Explain, please?
Just take whatever liquors you have on hand, mix ’em together, add some sours mix and top with soda. Wait, you were talking to DM and not me, weren’t you?
Well, yes, I was. But I’m starting to think longingly of cocktail hour and it’s only Tuesday morning.
Narrative fallacy is inevitable. Therefore to control for it, you do the sort of thing you do at a local level. You have meetings, you talk about it, you give everyone a chance to have their say. In the end, someone decides the “best” option based on hearing all the “facts” in all their different narrative forms. Even then it may be the wrong decision. But if you keep this format, you will inevitably get some of your decisions correct. And you’re less vulnerable to impactful unpredictable events in the future. That’s Talab’s argument at least.
I disagree that “narrative fallacy is inevitable.” I do believe humans have an innate tendency to create stories, by which means we both help and hinder ourselves, depending on the situation. But it’s not an uncontrollable biological imperative over which we have no control. We can, if we so choose, take a step back and look at factual data objectively without imposing narrative patterns simply to make ourselves feel good. Otherwise, we couldn’t be scientists.
Of course, everyone perceives what’s around them through the lens of their own experiences and understandings. A collection of people will have various perspectives on the same thing. I’m all for open discussion and sharing of perspectives in pursuit of informed and aware decision-making. But I think everybody participating in such discourse is obligated to try their best to distinguish between actual fact patterns and their own narrative constructs. Not to discount the latter, just recognize them for what they are.
“Wake me up when September ends.”
-Green Day
Right. We may be applying the term too broadly. It’s mostly concerned about the repercussions of the narrative into how people prioritize info in order to make future predictions of the unknown. RE: Scientists – Taleb hasn’t made any friends among the academics because he’s hardest on them, since he believes there are fewer checks in place when they make incorrect predictions.
Yeah, but “Free Westchester”, “Ban Walmart”, and “Darn stroller moms!” are getting old. I’m enjoying “Narrative Fallacy!” It stops my family in their tracks when I use it at home. I figure I’ve got a good 3 weeks before it’s efficacy wanes.
Good memory, Cranky. I seem to recall that Decatur had some charm even way back in 1988.
Oh, yeah.