Eye on the Street
Decatur Metro | August 3, 2012Trinity Place, Decatur GA (pic courtesy of Rick)
Rick also describes the crowd as…
Small. Well-behaved. Fun. Diverse. It appeared that about 1/3 of the crowd was photogs and reporters. A handful of protesters and camera guys were standing next to me on my side of the street. Did not see any protesters inside. Parking lot was full traffic moving along through the Drive-Thru. Passing cars were beeping and waving in support.
No such thing as bad publicity.
I’ll bet Chik Fil A has had record breaking sales this week.
Scratching my head at that one sign…”I HEART gay chickens”
But where’s the kissing?
Yawn.
If we knew the political/ religious/ etc beliefs of all the ceo’s of all the places we shop…and felt we needed to boycott and march on them if they did not match ours…we’d probably all be hermits!
+1,000,000,000
Watching where those CEO steer proceeds from our purchases is fair game.
It starts with CEOs and corporations, then it moves to small business and then eventually we target individual families in our neighborhood. I suggest we remove all those coexist bumper stickers because the war has started and will not end until everyone is in full agreement on everything. At which time diversity and tolerance has ended.
Religions did this in the name of God. We do this in the name of hate. The witch hunt has started and coming to your neighborhood soon.
*Sigh*. These people can’t seem to realize that it was Dan Cathy who voiced his opinion, Chick Fil A does not discriminate…and for their donations, it’s just like the BSA gay policy, been around forever, but a small spark can set it off. Oh well. I’m sure the “Chick Fil A Appreciation Day” will cover their losses (if any)
dan cathy won’t be the first to make bigotry and intolerance quite profitable. so what’s your point?
Connor, this is a Cathy-family owned, privately held company. They actually own all the franchises. Approximately 65% of every dollar spent in a store goes straight back to corporate. The Cathy family personally approves any donation made with corporate dollars (and the donations continually made to hate groups come from the corporation, not the family) over $2,500. The Cathy family IS the company.
Well of course. I’m not denying that, it’s just a little weird that now everybody wants to protest, when DC confirmed (like people didn’t know that, they’re solid Christians) that they believe in “traditional” marriage. I just don’t think that all of the people that work for Chick Fil A should have to deal with crap like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-jzlWcc0E. Go stand outside corporate in College Park if you want to protest the Cathys, because people who don’t have anything to do with the decision making shouldn’t have to be protested.
Oh, so they are “solid Christians”? And I, who have actually read the Gospels and strive to live up to the ideals espoused by your savior Jesus Christ, am what? If all the people who professed to be “Christians” actually knew what that meant and made an effort to be so, the world would be a much a better place. As it is, I’d say we have a pretty damn big reading comprehension fail…
Solid, as in not changing. Not a solid as in good, just as in that’s what they are. Look at January 2011, they gave food to a “marriage conference” held by arguably Pennsylvania’s most anti-gay groups. The WinShape foundation has been donating to anti gay groups. So now, when DC confirms that his family (and the company’s $$$) believes in “traditional marriage” everyone wants to do something? Seems a little late.
But the individual stores are part of corporate. And the employees are part of it as are the franchise owners- they chose to work there. You are representative of where ever you work. That is part of holding a job and taking responsibility for yourself.
they chose to work there. You are representative of where ever you work. That is part of holding a job and taking responsibility for yourself.
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Does that go for those that work in establishments that allow smoking as well?
Er, yes? But besides, where can you smoke at work anymore?
Bars and such. I ask because that’s the argument I made when others (including nellie if I remember correctly) argued that there should be smoking bans to protect the employees. They didn’t like my argument that they chose to work there.
Gotcha – I think we agree – the right of a bar to allow smoking precedes the right of an employee to work there, just as the right of a company to hold a certain ideology precedes the right of a consumer to support the company, no?
“…the right of a company to hold a certain ideology precedes the right of a consumer to support the company, no?” Precedes or supersedes? Seriously and not meant as snark. Just trying to understand your comment.
I’m not sure what you might have meant by “precedes” in this context. However, if your assertion is that the rights of the company to hold its beliefs outweighs (supersedes) the consumers choice to support the company, then no. I’m sorry if I’ve completely missed your point, but this seems to me a false premise upon which many have based their arguments on this matter. No company has any reasonable claim to my money. I can stop patronizing CFA or any other company for any reason at all. In this case, it is that I don’t like the money’s (or a portion of its) final destination.
You do misunderstand me, but only because of my poor choice of words… I doubled-up on the first part of my statement. But you also don’t misunderstand me, in that I believe exactly what you’re saying. And funny, because the second part of your paragraph conflicts with the first. I think we agree here, but just to make sure:
The right of a company to hold a certain ideology most definitely precedes (not supersedes) the CHOICE of a consumer to support the company, In other words, a company may express its position on something to its heart’s desire (do companies have hearts?) and therefore take the risk that it will alienate certain customers. In this specific instance, CFA has expressed that it does not support same-sex marriage, and it financially supports anti-gay groups, so people have the right to choose whether to patronize CFA or not for that reason (or just as you said, for whatever reason they want).
What do you call the gay and lesbian Christians standing in church every Sunday (churches in Decatur might I add)? Are Christians only solid if they see the world your way?
Connor–CFA DOES discriminate in its hiring. Try applying there if you are atheist, Muslim, or gay. You will not be hired. This is a fact. During the interview they ask you where you go to church, how often you go, what you do there, etc. Nothing wrong with that if that’s how they want to be, just saying–it is definitely discrimination.
Wrong. It is illegal to ask questions about religion in an interview. Also illegal to ask one’s age, unless the law requires a minimum age to perform a specific task, i.e. serving alcohol, but even then you can’t ask one’s specific age, just if they meet the minimum. Also illegal to ask about gender, race, etc…. Ultimately an employer can obviously hire whomever he/she wants, but they can’t discriminate in the interview.
Right, but this doesn’t apply to your sexual orientation. I don’t know what CFA actually does, but if they wanted to ask about your sexual orientation and not hire anybody who was gay, they could do so.
Correctamundo.
Shameful as it is, one’s sexuality is not a constitutionally-protected right (yet). And at the risk of opening an entirely new can of worms, neither is obesity (although I don’t think it should be anyway).
Apathy is the sorriest form of hypocrisy — especially when it comes to standing up to hate.
I’m glad there was a Kiss In, Love In, Hug In whatever it was. There’s never enough kissing, loving, hugging in this world. I hope that Chick Fil A becomes the kind of place that the same sex parents of my kids’ friends can feel comfortable at and that CSD PTOs/PTAs can embrace again.
Oh please, when did anyone affiliated with Chick-Fil-A say they hated anyone? What did they do to show they hated anyone? Dan Cathy may not support same sex marriage, but he never said or did anything that rises to HATE. And I seriously doubt that any legislation that deals with same sex marriage will be decided in the boardrooms of Chick-Fil-A.
Among other things, ChickFilA made a corporate donation — not Dan Cathy’s personal funds but corporate funds — to the Family Research Council, which has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. It was a small donation, but obviously many people feel the amount is not the issue, it’s where the money went. It could be $10 or $10 million. We’re either comfortable with it or we’re not.
Nowadays, most things that determine the course of all of our lives are in fact decided in corporate boardrooms. If you don’t get that, see Citizens United v. FEC. It’s as important as it ever has been — probably more — for each of us to stand up and speak out and be counted. Write checks to whomever you please. Eat whichever healthy or unhealthy food you want to. Buy your detergent from the merchant of your choice. Make signs and congregate with friends and family on street corners. What is your problem with any of that?
When one feels that it’s ok, for no rational reason, to deny other people the same civil rights that they enjoy, then that person is a bigot. It’s as simple as that. No one’s talking about same sex couples getting married in churches. We’re talking about civil marriage in a courthouse.
I doubt that any of the anti-marriage folks have ever even read Leviticus. I took the time to read it again the other day. Religious hypocrites ignore the other 5000 or so absurd rules in that wicked text and focus solely on same-sex marriage. I wonder why.
You wonder why? I assume it’s because they don’t want to sell their daughters into slavery. Or else they are uncomfortable smiting their neighbors…
You haven’t met MY neighbors.
Ooooh, I think I may have…
Money talks, j. Galt. And Cathy’s money is speaking volumes at the moment.
It’s also worth noting that Chik-fil-A–the company, not just the CEO–gave money to Exodus International, which has been a leading organization in trying to help “cure” gays and lesbians of their sinful desires. (Although the head of Exodus recently admitted that this ‘reparative’ therapy doesn’t work.) I knew that the Cathys were conservative Christians, but I wasn’t aware until recently of the company’s actions.
Yeah, and Lester Maddox didn’t hate black people. Intolerance = hatred when it comes to denying a whole class of people their fundamental civil rights.
Would love to reply, but it appears I’ve been blocked.
Yeah, and ol’ Lester Maddox didn’t hate black people. He just knew they were inferior and he didn’t want them in his restaurant. It’s right there in the Bible — they’re the descendants of Cain. Intolerance equals hatred when it comes to denying an entire class of people their civil rights based on superstition and ignorance.
I am with Mr. B. Teachers should not indoctrinate, or become politically involved in most issues. I just want to ask this question: If the Cathy’s corporate dollar was given to the KKK would the comments here be the same? I think the answer is, “no”. Please remember that Decaturite16 is correct. As a native of the south many southerners, religious church goers, Christians used the bible to justify that Blacks, and other minorities were inferior. I do believe Dan Cathy can say whatever he wishes. First Amendment all the way. I also believe this back and forth banter, and the large number of posts that appear to defend their stance is disturbing for me, a woman, a mother, , a Christian, and yes, a lesbian. I just wish people would visit my home. See the children my partner and I have raised, and hear me say my prayers each night and morning to a God, that I believe loves me. All the protests or support rallies don’t make my heartache any less. I am tired of being hurt by anyone who thinks it is ok to deny me the rights all straight couples have. As you have these discussions remember we are your neighbors, your doctors, your teachers, we are humans. When you support the idea that I am unholy and don’t deserve what you deserve it is a notion that hurts. You can call it hate, dislike, whatever you wish.
With you all the way, my sister. To me, there’s a difference between voicing one’s opinions and actively participating, with monetary support, an organization that itself supports violence against (and even murder of) gay folk. As STG alludes to above, Citizens United blurred those distinctions, but everyone with a conscience knows that’s just bullsh!t, oure & simple. Further, if one has no gay friends or family (that they know of, I should say), I guess it’s a lot easier to support Chik-Fil-A’s actions as mere exercises of its “freedom of speech”. I have both, and I love them more than I love Chik-Fil-A’s food (which, I have to admit, I do love– unhealthy as it is). As a person of mixed race, I find it so incredible that people of color could support Chik-Fil-A’s actions, because they really are NO different from the human rights battles fought in the 60’s by Black folk. Not to wax corny, but I truly believe, in the words of the old spiritual, “We Shall Overcome”!
Uhm, gay folk had–and have– the right to vote, own property/businesses, etc–albeit because they could “pass”, but there were a lot of blacks that could not pass. Seems like a big difference.
Hundreds or maybe thousands show up Wednesday to support freedom of speech and a few dozen boycott today.
Can we move on now?
I’m not sure what your point is.
OK, so it’s probably worth pointing out some of the parallels to Lester Maddox here. If you don’t know the background, here’s a good summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Maddox#Restaurant_owner
Now Dan Cathy never said that gays weren’t welcome at CFA. He never brandished a gun, or an axe. But you may notice some common themes. Here’s an example:
“He claimed that the issue was not hostility to blacks but constitutional property rights.” Notice that a lot of folks are couching this simply as a free speech issue, not a hate speech issue, and Dan Cathy is certainly entitled to his opinion, bigoted and backward as it may be.
But one does wonder – what if Dan Cathy had said that we should defend traditional marriage by prohibiting blacks and whites from marrying? Would CFA still have as many defenders? Would they flock to his restaurant as they Maddox’s in 1964? I don’t think they would. But back in 1964 it was still widely acceptable to be bigoted against racial minorities. In 2012 it’s pretty unthinkable that someone would take Maddox’s position about their business. But it is still mostly acceptable to say bigoted things about gays – it hasn’t been made socially unacceptable yet. So, 48 years from now, how is this going to look to people looking back? Will all those who showed up to CFA appreciation day because they’re uncomfortable with gay marriage look like people just supporting free speech and enjoying chicken sandwitches (not saying all CFA customers hold this view)? Or will they look a lot like Maddox’s customers in 1964?
Thank you, Dex
The same parallel could be drawn with Anti-Semitism in Germany in the 1930s. The “taste the hate” graffiti on that Chick-Fil-A restaurant is eerily similar to my great, great uncle’s store in Germany in the 1930s. It started with the word “Jude” painted on the front.
Wait a second–so the poor persecuted minority in this Nazi analogy are the fundamentalist Christians in the United States, and not gays and lesbians? Oh my. Let’s leave aside the fact that gays and lesbians were one of the groups targeted to be sent to Nazi death camps. And let’s leave aside bans on same-sex marriage and the many legal rights (and benefits) that gays and lesbians can’t easily obtain because of that. Religion is a protected category, so fundamentalist Christians cannot legally be denied housing or fired from their jobs because of their religion, while doing so because a person is homosexual is legally fine. Playing the victim card in this case is sadly misguided.
Whatever makes you sleep at night my friend. Just remember all those facts when you go door to door in your neighborhood checking for those hate groups.
Let me also point out that I am for same sex marriage, but no way in hell will I be part of such tactics.
Awesome! TOK just inspired me with a totally great idea!
I’m going to start a peace group in Decatur that will be for gay marriage and against the military tactics of left wing and right wing parties that threaten to set back the gay marriage movement by 10 years.
We will provide sanctuary and support to people who are being attacked by both the left and right wing during this war in Decatur!
Wow, what a strong showing of ignorance.
Thanks for providing your argument, Allen, in such stark terms.
BTW – the Quakers are in Decatur on Howard Ave. They are what you are apparently looking for.
Eh, whatever. Here are the “facts.”
(1) Recently a prominent fast-food company has received a lot of publicity after the remarks of its CEO help bring to light that the company spends some of its money supporting anti-gay organizations like Exodus International and Focus on the Family.
(2) This sparks a lot of discussion (including here on DM) about whether it would be appropriate to boycott that restaurant. Some people organize a nation-wide “kiss in” protest around the restaurants to help express their opposition to the restaurant’s practices. (On the opposite side there is a nationwide “appreciation day” of the restaurant organized.) Decatur GA is the site of one of these “kiss in” demonstrations, which proceeds peacefully and without incident.
(3) One idiot in California scrawls graffiti on a restaurant wall in California. (Oh, and for the record, I think that doing so is both wrong and stupid.)
And on this basis you talk about intolerant “witch hunts” above, imply that people who post on blogs opposing Chik-fil-A are going “door to door” in their neighborhoods intolerantly checking on supposed hate groups, and get to speak about the “military tactics of left-wing … parties.” Give me a break. Where is the witch hunt? I don’t see it.
I love you too. Thanks for all the inspiration. I feel the peace movement growing
Thank you. I feel like America gave me one giant middle finger on CFA Appreciation Day.
I feel bad for the poor employees who have to put up with being in the middle of this culture war while simply trying to provide for themselves and their families — and that includes gay employees.
Maybe one day I’ll return. And as others have pointed out, this goes beyond the marriage issue — this goes into donations to anti-gay organizations that work against me at every turn on not just marriage, but even employment protections and the right to simply be gay without having psychological damage inflicted by “reparative therapy.” (See: Exodus International). It’s that the marriage thing is what got people hopped up and what got the mainstream media to pay attention (and now they’re harping on that sole issue).
But for now, if you have no problem with your money being funneled to these organizations — no matter how nice the people close in at individual restaurants are on the ground, even the Decatur one — feel free to patronize CFA. Use that wonderful freedom of speech that the right wing is throwing back in my face.
I choose to use my freedom of speech and freedom of choice, and I choose not to go there.
Well said Dex – interesting parallel example. This is a human rights issue – it goes beyond just marriage – it is being carefully veiled as a free speech issue by those on the religious right until it is hopefully soon unveiled as what it really is – discrimination and bigotry.
Thanks Dex. Well said.
TESTIFY, Brother!
I just find it hilarious that most of you probably voted for Barack Obama in 2008 when he was a certified “bigot.” And he was running for president! CFA is just a restaurant. Oh, the hypocrisy….
Just tickles me.
BO was funneling my money to hate groups?
Dan Cathy is the President of the United States? I think a “bigot” in the White House can be far more dangerous than a “bigoted” CEO of a chicken restaurant.
Yep, voted for Obama. No opportunity to vote for a viable candidate who supported same-sex marriage at that time, but also, that would not have been the make/break issue for me in the choice of a President. Glad he has changed his mind about this and don’t see any hypocrisy on his part or mine.
No objection to the Cathys supporting whatever/whomever they wish, and leveraging both their personal and corporate fortunes to do it. As I’ve learned more about their beliefs and where they funnel their money, though, I’ve grown less comfortable with contributing any of my own pittance toward their ability to support their causes. As they are entitled to talk about what they believe and why, so am I.
The politicians proclaiming CFA should be drummed out of town or prevented from setting up shop, are full of sh!t and should be ignored, IMO. They are contributing nothing productive and are dragging the level of discourse even lower than it might sink otherwise.
If CFA is “just a restaurant” then why are so many people so bothered about other people deciding not to eat there?
“Yep, voted for Obama. No opportunity to vote for a viable candidate who supported same-sex marriage at that time, but also, that would not have been the make/break issue for me in the choice of a President. Glad he has changed his mind about this and don’t see any hypocrisy on his part or mine.”
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And that is fine. You weighed the pros and cons of voting for a “bigot” and felt the pros outweighed the cons. Nothing wrong with that (well, except for voting for him period ;-)). However, that same philosophy can be used for CFA. 95% of the money they give is not for “anti-gay” causes. Maybe 5% is. Doesn’t the good outweigh the bad?
Your post was thoughtful and I agree with much of it. I don’t like Dan Cathy’s beliefs either. I also don’t have a problem with anyone choosing not to eat there.
I have heard this comparison made before (Obama’s position on gay marriage prior to 2012) and I just do not think it is a valid point.
Obama said at the time that he was not in favor of legalizing gay marriage, but that he supported civil unions and opposed a constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage and supported the repeal of DOMA (the Federal Defense of Marriage Act) that prohibits federal legal benefits from even legally married same sex couples.
Now compare that to Dan Cathy – a man that has funneled at least $5 million to anti gay groups – including groups that advocate for the criminalization of homosexuality in African countries and prop up US groups like Focus on the Family and Exodus International – which do great psychological damage to gay kids.
Also Cathy said that not only did he oppose gay marriage, but that “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about.”
Now if Barack Obama had said something like that I wouldn’t have voted for him in 2008. But he did not and his record is quite different, so your comparison is total and utter BS.
Well Marty, I was going to state that your post was well written (though some of your statements are inaccurate), but after you couldn’t resist concluding with “so your comparison is total and utter BS.”, which continues to show that you have no tolerance or open mindedness to other people’s views, I now know that it is still futile to have a discussion with you.
When Dan Cathy announces that he supports civil unions, the repeal of DOMA, and will stop funneling money into hate groups that advocate the execution of people caught engaging in homosexual acts, I will be happy to have a meal at Chick-fil-A once again. And, yes, I will be voting for the President, who has been a bigger advocate for gay rights than all of the other Presidents combined.
You are dancing on the head of a pin. Obama made absolutely clear that he was opposed to same sex marriage. Thus, he was FOR denying the same basic civil right that Cathy wants to deny. The amendment issue is different (a matter of how and not whether to deny this right to gays), and civil unions are supposed to be an inferior alternative, so why would you be consoled by Obama’s offer of “separtate but equal” to gays? What you cannot deny is that Obama ran for President on the express platform of denying gays the right to marry. (And DOMA was signed by Bill Clinton, by the way.)
As for the claim that neither major party offered a candidate who supported same sex marriage, let’s turn back to the race comparison. If the Republicans and Dems each had offered a candidate who supported repeal of the ’64 Civil Rights Act, would you have chosen the “lesser of two evils” or voted for a 3rd party as a matter of principle?
That wasn’t the case in 1964. The Republican candidate ran against civil rights in 1964 and the Democrat ran for it. Just like in 2012, the Democratic candidate will be for marriage rights and the Republican candidate will be against those same rights.
It’s really quite clear.
I rather think it’s you, DEM, who’s dancing on the head of a pin. Please cite evidence that Barack Obama EVER gave large sums of money to organizations that supported totalitarian regimes’ policies of persecution and even killing of gay people. If you can produce a single credible source that shows he did that, then I’ll concede that you & Wally may have a point. Until you do, though, you’re just dissembling by comparing Obama’s transition from hinitial half-hearted support of DOMA to realizing that it’s just wrong.
So, believing that gay people should not be able to get married does not make you a bigot? It takes donating to anti-gay marriage organizations to make you a bigot? Got it. Good to know.
Can’t have it both ways….
What in the heck does that have to do with anything!
This isn’t a political issue. It isn’t a free speech issue. Those are typical talking head distractions.
This is a religious-based hateful bigotry based on calling down God’s wrath on sinners, according to Dan Cathy. I choose not to consider my gay friends worthy of God’s judgment just for being loving people.
Beyond Mr Cathy’s opinions and donations to hate groups, one might also consider the situation of gay employees at these restaurants. (yes, there are some. Lower income gay people are less visible because they have more to lose.) That would include no domestic partner benefits of any kind, no health insurance for children of your partner because they won’t be considered your kids, etc etc.
And, of course, it doesn’t seem to be an atmosphere in which you would be comfortable being yourself and even talking about your life too much in case the wrong person got wind of it.
Of course these things are true in many businesses, but it’s got to hurt to hear the person you are directly working for condemn your identify and life. and, I imagine the gay employees felt differently about the kiss-ins — a little support of any kind would be welcome.
All comments very interesting.
I am concerned about two things. Several posters have suggested that parent groups affiliated with our schools should not participate in Chick fil A fundraisers. I would be strongly opposed to this but I would hope that the school councils and the board of education will invite everyone to discuss this and that no changes in policy will be made until this happens. I also hope that school principals make it clear to teachers and staff that employees should be as neutral as possible with this issue. Teachers, coaches and club sponsors should not try to influence students either to support or oppose CFA.
There have been several comments about hatred directed towards the Jews during the 1930s. Remember that the Nazis (the Communists too) did not come looking first for the Jews, trade unionists, homosexuals, Catholic priests, or any other minority before first coming to indoctrinate the children. Beware of religious intolerance, especially in our schols.
In terms of fundraising, as far as I know this is a PTA/PTO issue, not a CSD issue, at this point. The Chick Fil A fundraisers and food donations are organized by PTA/O volunteers, not schools, CSD, the School Board, or School Councils. And there’s always a bunch of options for fundraising–CFA nights are just one. For example, many of the schools don’t do Labels for Education, even though they always try to recruit us, because it’s a lot of work for products that the schools often don’t want. Some schools like Sally Foster wrapping paper fundraisers or cookie dough fundraisers, some don’t. Some like auctions or events like Harvest Festivals better. Some of the biggest doers in the PTA/Os are either same sex parents themselves or strong supporters of same sex parents so are sensitive to the hurt for children of same sex parents if their schoolmates around them are enthusiastically raising money through a company that does not believe their parents should be a family and have children like themselves. So the PTO/As may just decide to drop Chick Fil A in favor of other lucrative fundraisers that could use their time and energy. It’s a shame because of all the good will that has been developed between the Decatur CFA, its managers, our schools, and our community. It would have been so much better if Dan Cathy used only his personal earnings, not corporate funds,. to support what many deem to be hate causes. Even better if he would not support hate causes at all… With all the evil in the world right now, and all the children living in broken families, it seems a waste to be worrying about who wants their committed relationship to be called marriage and for their children to have the security of having married parents.
A shame? Please. I think it is a slap in the face to any gay or lesbian parent and those who support them to allow Chick fil a in our schools. Period.
It’s also a slap to all those “straight” folk who have gay family and/or friends. I’d like to see how many people would still support this if Dan Cathy had said this about an ethnic minority group. They’d be roundly ridiculed, and rightfully so.
The shame isn’t that CFA fundraising is probably going to stop–the shame is what CFA has done to deserve that reaction. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. Because of CFA’s actions, what was a very nice and mutually beneficial community/school/business vibe is over.
This is evidently such a charged issue that it’s hard to write anything without being misunderstood. It is not mutually exclusive to believe: 1) That CFA is wrong and its actions hurt LGBT persons and their children so,until CFA changes its actions, if it does, Decatur PTA/Os probably won’t feel comfortable fundraising with them; and 2) The Decatur CFA has been a generous and neighborly addition to our community and it’s hard to lose that kind of relationship. .
Hey Nellie,
The Democratic Underground.com just reported that the Catholic Church is wrong on gay marriage. Since my neighbor is Catholic and gives money to his church should we label him and his family as a supporter of hate groups?
Just asking.
Yes. Any other questions?
Yes, Dan Cathy’s quote was in a Baptist publication so we must also treat the local Baptist church as an enemy too?
I truly feel sorry for you if you are just realizing the hate groups supported by the Catholic Church.
“what many deem to be hate causes.” — that’s a pretty noncommittal turn of phrase
“worrying about who wants their committed relationship to be called marriage” — so it’s about nomenclature?
AHID, I’ve never once known you to pull your punches when opining about CSD or a host of other issues. Here, you are temporizing and I’m calling you out. This whole CFA debate boils down to people being willing to stand up and say, “This is who I am and this what I believe, in my heart of hearts, to be true and just.” To his credit, Dan Cathy didn’t pull any punches. The rest of us have a responsibility to be equally candid and direct. (As one DM “regular” to another…)
Wow, I thought it was pretty obvious that I am not at all in support Dan Cathy or his donation of money to hate groups. I’ve posted at least 5-6 times on these CFA threads–please reread my posts.. I have to admit that I haven’t done a lot of research on the CFA controversy myself and am trusting how things have been reported–maybe that’s why it seems like temporizing. I completely support the PTOs/PTAs if they decide to stop CFA fundraising. But I’m not in charge of CFA fundraising, because it’s hard for someone working to be at school to walk the cow around. And I’ve mentioned clearly that I love hugging, kissing, loving of all sorts and never want same sex parents or their children to feel uncomfortable about CFA. And this is going to sound trite but some of my closest friends and work colleagues are LGBT so I’m pretty shocked that I have come off as not supportive of their marriages or families.
I’m heartsick because the Decatur CFA has been such a good contributor to the schools and community and I’ve enjoyed my dealings with one of the managers. I cannot help but hope that there’s a way for this to end differently than it’s probably going to. That’s not a support of CFA’s donations or Dan Cathy’s statements.
If I’m guilty of something, it’s of not realizing what CFA was about earlier. I knew they were closed Sundays but that’s about it. But from all I’m reading on this blog and elsewhere, I’m not the only person who was patronizing CFA without understanding that the profits went to hate groups.
AHID, you’ve worn your heart on your sleeve throughout these discussions. It’s been clear from the start that you immediately accepted that, barring a miracle, you’ll be saying goodbye to good local owners and a company that you’ve had so much appreciation for until now. I’ve felt deeply for the anguish that you’re experiencing, and I’m proud of you for expressing how much you care about everyone who makes up the CSD community. You’ve directly said that these are indeed hate groups. For you to allow for the fact that not all folks see it that way is okay too.
First of all, that came across as more confrontational online that it did in my head. (Gee, that’s never happened before.)
AHID, there has not been any question in my mind where you stand on various aspects of this whole thing, which is why those particular turns of phrase struck me as somewhat PC. In fairness — to you and to myself — some of the comments in this thread (and others pertaining to this issue) have been so disgusting and/or dismaying to me, I was in a mood to over-react. Or at least, react unnecessarily. I try to remember that it is not necessary to share everything that crosses one’s mind, but sometimes I forget.
I’m thinking that maybe my sentence “With all the evil in the world right now, and all the children living in broken families, it seems a waste to be worrying about who wants their committed relationship to be called marriage and for their children to have the security of having married parents.” was not clear about who I thought was wasting their time. I meant Dan Cathy and others who oppose gay marriage should stop worrying about it and concentrate on evil in the world an broken homes. Oh well.
Re CSD: Ironically, I was trying to make it clear that CSD is not to blame for the fact that so many PTO/PTAs have been using CFA fundraising. I try to be fair about what I think goes well with CSD and what doesn’t. If I thought CSD was an evil place, my children would not be there. It’s a good solid school system that has benefitted from parent advocacy and community feedback, including what happens on this blog. In the case of CFA fundraising by PTA/Os, most parents supporting it probably did not understand what CFA was about until the recent news stories.
Your words were meaningful there too.
Having served many years on the PTO/PTA, the idea that nothing should be done for now about Spirit Nights is absurd. This is a big issue to many parents. Drop them in CSD schools. The amount of money made from these events can easily be made up from the amount of supporters against anti hate groups.
I will be at our Renfroe PTA to voice my opinion.
Agree. I would hate to see any dollars at my child’s school be raised in partnership with CFA. I hope CSD will end any fundraising relationship with CFA that involve dine-out nights and other profit-sharing agreements. Decatur is full of fantastic independent restaurants owned by folks who don’t seem to be determined to publicize their bigotry. I hope we can partner with those businesses moving forward.
I agree with you about CFA fundraising no longer being a good choice for CSD PTO/As although that it is not my decision and I respect the authority of the PTO/A process to make it. However, don’t think it’s easy to find other local businesses to step in and replace what CFA has made so seamless. I’ve walked the streets in the past looking for donations or fundraising nights from local businesses and many just cannot afford to do it even if they love this community. They have usually set aside a certain budget for local community giving and promotion and often they have already expended it by the time you reach them. You are competing with a lot of other great local causes, which are also constantly looking for local business support. I’m not saying that you can’t find local business donors but it’s certainly not easy or permanent. That’s why you keep seeing schools use the organized, national commercial fundraising programs like Sally Foster, cookie dough selling, Boxtops for Education, and all those other perennial fundraising efforts that get real old fast.
It only amounted to a few hundred dollars for the 4/5. Gay families support the PTO/PTA with many more dollars.
It is no big deal to let CFA spirit nights go by the wayside.
Chick-fil-A’s history of workplace discrimination:
http://likethedew.com/2012/08/02/chick-fil-as-history-of-workplace-discrimination/
I loved the sign one guy carried down at the CNN area CFA: “Jesus had two dads and he did o.k.”.
I love it! Two Dads and a virgin Mom who wasn’t even keen on the pregnancy at first! I don’t think that religion is the source of tribal/ethnic/religious/racial/sexist/agist/sexual orientation bigotry and hate. It’s the limited ability of human beings to understand and embrace what’s good in religion, doctrine, ethics, and spirituality. We twist it into something negative.
Oh, and I should have added that the virgin Mom was pregnant at the time of marriage so we are definitely not talking about your Emily Post traditional white Bride Magazine type of wedding!
Single issue voters unite!
lol
Do you think all this is rooted in having had to grow up as a boy named Cathy?
Ironic. I always wonder if homophobia is due to fear of one’s own feelings.
This photo was on the front page of Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/xo5v7/good_guy_chickfila/
inDecatur! Not the subreddit I would hope Decatur shows up on, but oh well.
I really love Chik-Fil-A and am going to miss it. Sigh.
Lots of opinions around here. Am I hypocrite because I let my son do Cub Scouts with his friends?
No more so than anyone who continues to purchase, say, gasoline, as there are a number of recipient OPEC member nations whose government-sponsored treatment of homosexuals and homosexuality is downright barbaric — even punishable by death in some cases.
Of course, it’s a lot easier to take a principled stand when all it involves is giving up a chicken sandwich.
It’s a toughie. I’m so glad that the Girl Scouts don’t have that issue. Never a problem that I’ve heard of.
When Ann Coulter is on your side, run run run to the other side.
The Democratic Underground.com just reported that the Catholic Church is wrong on gay marriage.
Using the logic of others on here is this how we should proceed:
This isn’t a political issue. It isn’t a free speech issue. Those are typical talking head distractions.
This is a religious-based hateful bigotry based on calling down God’s wrath on sinners, according to the Catholic Church.
Decatur’s own St. Thomas More Catholic Parish must be closed down.
Sorry, but these are not independently run churches, and St. Thomas More work at the will and whim of the Catholic Church. This is not an independent, locally run church, not matter how you rationalize it. Supporting St. Thomas More allows Catholic Church to financially support far too many causes I find reprehensible.
Okay using the logic posted on this site, did I get it correct? Where did I error in my logic here?
Nobody is demanding that STM be closed down, just as nobody is demanding that Chick-fil-a be closed down. However, you are correct in that the logic I use in deciding not to patronize CFA is the same logic that led me many years ago to stop attending and supporting any Catholic Church. So yeah, you got it right…
Closed down? If your invitation was a serious one – and I’ll take you at your word that it was – you sure got it wrong there. No one said anything about closing CFA down. Did they? I haven’t heard it. Some of us just aren’t going to spend our money there. You should eat all the chicken sandwiches you desire if that’s your choice.
My choice? Is your post a serious one – I never said I would eat there. You can eat there if you desire.
Yes. I was serious. Indeed, you did not profess to be a CFA customer. I was trying to follow the meaning of posts. I don’t think I succeeded.
Nope. But with 108 responses so far, did you expect to only find two sides to this issue?
It’s been a long time since I listened to anything the corrupt, morally bankrupt criminal enterprise known as the Catholic Church had to say on any subject.
Statements like this do not help at all. I agree with the statement for the most part, but why piss off a huge chuck of the society by insulting them and their culture. My wife is Catholic and we have struggled to find common ground on the role of the Church in our kid’s lives.
I often have to separate my sons as they start to swing and scream at each other. I am trying (so far with disappointing results) to teach them that there is a good way to tell someone how you feel and a bad way that makes the situation worse.
Dialog leading to self-reflection and reconsideration does not include judgements and name calling. Does anyone think that Fox News and MSNBC are going to make anything better?
Hey, there is no god.
Prove it
Getting a bit ugly. Closing the thread.