Superintendent Addresses Bus Concerns
Decatur Metro | October 17, 2011Superintendent Phyllis Edwards sent this letter out to the Decatur community last night…
Dear Families:
The City Schools of Decatur is happy to provide transportation service for your children. Approximately 40% of our students ride the bus to or from school.
We have experienced some unavoidable issues this year, such as a shortage in certified school bus drivers. We have temporarily collapsed some routes, causing timetable adjustments.
Transportation is not an easy school system service. While we strive for all students to travel without incident, any number of situations could exist concurrently: a traffic jam or auto accident, a student who boarded the wrong bus, a driver not reporting to work due to illness.
On Wednesday, October 12, 2011, I met with Principals and Ms. Simone Elder, Transportation Director, to discuss bus service concerns. I offer these concerns below, some that will require your assistance, others that require action on our part over the next few months.
Volunteers from the central office and schools recently riding the bus routes have surfaced the following information:
1. Children ride may ride in the morning and/or the afternoon, while the routes assume children ride both ways.
2. Children may ride only part of a week, not all five days.
3. Children sometimes stop riding for over two weeks. The driver’s response is to skip those empty stops.
4. Some children are being disruptive on the bus. The bus driver’s main duty is to safely transport all students.
5. Children are exiting the bus at different stops (sometimes to spend time with their friends) without the proper permission paperwork.
6. Parents are allowing students to ride bus routes and board at bus stops for which they are not assigned.
7. Parents are placing siblings of children on busses where they don’t belong or are not entitled to ride because the K-3 or 4/5 child is within one mile of the school.
8. Children that receive Exceptional Student Services sometimes ride a bus for which they have not received permission. Those decisions are made collaboratively between the family and the school system.
9. Families with questions, comments and/or concerns about transportation do not consistently receive communication after they contact the Transportation Department.
To address these concerns, we commit to the following:
1. We will physically ride the bus routes, especially with the new drivers, to ensure route directions are reasonable.
2. We will provide every driver, the Transportation Director and the Principals with a communication device. These devices will not be used by drivers as they operate the busses.
3. Bus tags will be provided to all riders that are eligible for CSD transportation. Children must attach them to a bag they regularly bring to school (e.g., backpack, lunch bag).
4. We will communicate changes. Changes could happen for various reasons:
a. If we see that a child has not been riding but his/her name appears on the roster, we will contact the parent and could remove the stop.
b. When we review the data, if there are busses or stops that are underutilized, these will be adjusted. After January, 2012, unless new students or extraordinary circumstances require, the bus routes and stops will remain constant.
Notification of necessary route changes will occur at least three days prior to implementation. Communication of the changes will occur in multiple ways: email from the school principal, a printed route sheet handed out to students on the morning and afternoon routes, and an updated Transportation webpage. Schools will be notified in advance of an impending issue and will communicate with parents.
5. We will place bus monitors on the bus routes for the next few months. The monitors will check bus tags, collect data regarding which stops children enter and exit the bus, communicate any changes, and emphasize appropriate behavior on the bus.
6. In the case of an emergency, we will follow a standard protocol. Notification occurs in this order: Superintendent, Principals/other drivers, police (if necessary in the case of a lost child), and families. If the emergency involves a bus accident with or without injuries, our first priority is to call an ambulance and then the parents.
We hope that you can commit to the following:
1. Talk to your child about proper bus behavior. Riding the bus is a privilege and disciplinary action may result in a loss of this privilege.
2. Talk to your child about only exiting the bus at the assigned stop.
If you have a concern that cannot be resolved through your Principal, please contact Simone Elder, Transportation Director at [email protected] or . Since her role is quite mobile (riding, following or meeting busses), she may not immediately communicate with you. I encourage you to start with your Principal. If you need additional assistance beyond these steps, you may contact Caroline Wood, Chief of Staff, .
We ask for your help and patience as we improve, desirous of quality service while managing costs. Thank you for allowing us to educate and transport the children of CSD.
Sincerely,
Phyllis A. Edwards, Ed.D.
Superintendent
Sure, being shackled to my desk in an office with florescent lighting humming above me, reports piling up, mistakes in last weeks work, and wasteful morning meetings corrode my good mood, but when anyone uses the word ‘privilege’ as a warning, I always feel chafed.
Other than my daughter mentioning seemingly inefficient bus routes over the last few weeks, I didn’t realize the district was in crisis mode.
I remember a big reason for the staggered school start times had to do with bus schedules. Good to know it all worked out.
That response surprises me, a little. I would have expected any parent to be glad that CSD is clamping down on on-board misbehavior by riders that contributes to complication/delay/inefficiency for the bus transport enterprise — which, apparently, on the best day of the year is an exercise in herding cats. I would think any chafing would come from knowing fellow parents might be letting their own little darlings get away with acting out and causing trouble.
The complaints stem from lack of leadership in CSD Transporation services. I don’t think boondoggle has a beef with clamping down on discipline issues. The bus system is a mess most days and there is virtually no communication to parents who have questions or concerns. This has been going on for years. I’m glad it’s finally bubbled to the surface.
Agree that the discipline issues are only one of many, many problems. It’s only in the last 2-3 weeks that discipline issues have been brought up by friends and neighbors, but the routing and scheduling issues have existed since August 2. And the lack of planning, communication, and responsiveness has been going on for years ever since DeKalb County got the contract, albeit it sounds much, much worse this year. My guess is that the increased volume and complexity of the busing due to the opening of F.Ave has brought a simmering problem to a boil. And the buses are much fuller which magnifies the discipline issues. I completely agree with a crackdown on discipline issues for the safety of all the children. Problem is that some well-behaved children are now frightened to ride the bus because of the bus driver’s style. I wish DeKalb County used school buses with safety belts–they have a subduing effect. On the other hand, some of the routes have 3 children to a seat starting out and that may not work with seatbelts.
Are discipline issues particularly worse this year? Because if I recall my childhood correctly, kids are at their absolute worst when they’re on the bus.
Also, do they put monitors on every bus?
Evidently in the afternoon, discipline is an issue. This is all hearsay though. There’s a lot I’ll do for my children, but be a volunteer bus monitor is not one of them. And they are grateful!
Short comment: If you keep kids closed up in a clas room all day and then put them into an even smaller bus…what do you think may happen?
I have abstained so far from wondering here how bad the kids really are. Have not been on the buses myself and my children aren’t complaining. I have heard about children coming off the bus in the afternoon crying but they are not the children being disciplined, but the well-behaved ones who feel that the bus drivers are being incredibly harsh, all the time, to all students. I have also heard that the few disciplined children are mostly Decatur Housing Authority residents and that they are being loud. I have conjectured that last year the same few loud DHA students were on the bus but the bus was less crowded, the ride was shorter, and they had an experienced bus driver who knew how to handle the situation. I admit up front that this is hearsay and conjecture but it’s the only way I can understand how discipline can be such a big deal this year.
I was commenting on the comment that Boondoggle actually made, not on what else she/he may have been thinking. I get that the bus transport is not running smoothly, and am sure there must be some legitimate gripes. But I also think it’s as predictable as the sun coming up in the morning, that every time Phyllis Edwards opens her mouth, somebody will take a potshot. (To be plainer about it: if boondoggle does not have a beef with clamping down on discipline issues, why complain about Dr. Edwards’s remark pertaining to that specific thing?)
(sigh) We’ve now entered mountains-out-of-molehills territory, and I led us here. But since I’ve written it, may as well hit ‘send.’
You read all of that, and your problem is with the “privilege” part?
Mostly, yep.
We have talented people in our schools and in our community. More importantly, we have a shared commitment to getting things right, not just muddling through the status quo. Sure, we have different priorities and we offer different solutions.
If there’s a problem, let’s fix it together. If kids are misbehaving, asking the parents become involved is the right decision. I bet if parents were given the option to ride a bus with their disruptive children, behavior would improve dramatically. I can’t imagine the world of grief headed my way if my father had ever been asked to ride the school bus with me because I couldn’t behave; wow.
I’m probably irrational about being reminded of the ‘privileges’ extended to me or my kids, but irrational or not, there it is.
Over the years that she has been employed at CSD I have called the bus coordinator about 10 times about various questions, concerns, changes.. yada, yada. Not once has she ever returned my call and not once have I ever reached her voice to voice. Fortunately, none of these issues were critical so I just worked it out myself… usually by just foregoing bus service or doing some personal sleuthing. I have decided that she is a figment of my imagination.
Some extensive retraining or perhaps new leadership in Transportation is in order.
I’ve also had similar experiences. Last year i documented in writing the problems my child experienced on the bus in hopes that, if problems were systemic, a letter would help build evidence that this was so. I did have the resources to take my child off the bus, but as not everyone does, i felt an obligation to write a letter.
In addition to perhaps leadership training needed, I would also recommend that bus drivers and bus monitors receive more training in management of children and adolescents. I’ve seen first-hand some very ineffective techniques used (e.g., yelling (to put it mildly….)) that do nothing for long-term management of the kids.
We just moved to Decatur last week, and my daughter started school on Tuesday. She rode the school bus for the first time ever on Thursday. The bus that pulled up five minutes early was clearly marked as DHS ##. Despite that, it was her FAVE ## bus. Not too reassuring to her or us, but she made it to school. On Friday, she took the bus home for the first time. She and I both had the route printed out by the administrative assistant. It clearly stated that her bus would arrive at 3:59. By 4:20, I started to worry. Finally, at 4:30, a bus clearly labeled ECLC ## pulled up with my crying “I’m never riding the bus again” child. She is riding the bus both ways again today, but I do wish the buses were clearly marked and that the online schedules were closer reflections of reality.
I got a little smoked when I watched a teenager who, in his own words, was “in a hurry” pass a School Bus with its lights flashing near East Lake this morning. Sorry Charlie, no excuse!
Post license plate here please. Parents need to know.
16 buses in a 4-square-mile town, and they still can’t get the job done properly???
I feel sorry for the Renfro kid who lives next door, when I see him standing in the very DIM morning light waiting for his bus. It must be pitch black when the bus comes by here for any DHS kids.
Not mine, though.
Was a perfect storm -adding a school across town (for many neighborhoods) and having it start at 8:45 means many more will ride the bus, but then layer on band, track club, chorus in a.m. and after school activities in p.m. and try to track ridership –it’s a mess. And has been a mess for us.
If my business handled customers the way I feel we’ve been treated by the bus “product” we have, we’d have no customers.
When will the real problem, lack of leadership, be addressed?
Time to start holding someone accountable. With 10% unemployment we can’t find competent bus drivers.
Lack of leadership is the fault of the bus drivers?
I think the poster meant that there ought to be plenty of competent bus drivers that good leaders could recruit and hire. I am really sad if we no longer have great bus drivers. For years, despite Transportation office problems, our bus drivers have usually been wonderful…to the point that they were on my children’s Xmas gift and end of the year gift lists. I hope that, once things sort out, we end up with great bus drivers again. It may be hard to tell now in the middle of all this change.
More –It has been a complete mess this year for us –buses early, busses late, drivers telling the kids “to just get on this bus, we’ll take you there”, taking kids on long rides through Decatur, picking up multi-aged children because the snafus are so bad.
…and feeling like (2) 6-week periods can go by and parents are expected to be patient when literally, you’d have to use both hands to count the number of times I have questioned my child’s safety and whereabouts concering bus transportation.
No robo call, no email no nothing when a bus is loaded late, and my child comes home 30 minutes later. No message to notify me that a proactive decsion was made to put my child on another bus route for the day – had to ride that whole route and then ours, because of bus problems.
I’ve tried, really tried to be patient and understanding!
“Parents are placing siblings of children on busses where they don’t belong or are not entitled to ride because the K-3 or 4/5 child is within one mile of the school.”
Huh? Why are these parents allowed to do this? Can’t the drivers muster up the word “NO”?
As to disruptive kiddo’s, revoke the “priviledge.”
Maybe CSD needs to be reminded that they are supposed to be running schools. No law says they have to “…provide transportation service for your children. ” [aside from special needs]
Parents—figure out how to get YOUR own kids to their school(s).
Save money and reduce hassle for everyone.
+1
Agreed. I think we need to question whether bus transportation needs to be offered at all – we’re 4 square miles, for crying out loud.
Maybe we can take an incremental approach – retire the bus service for the low hanging fruit like the elementary schools (4 of them in 4 square miles) and the high school (centrally located, mobile and independent students). Then the limited resources of CSD could focus on FAVE, Renfroe, and maybe College Heights.
Like!
Instead of asking the principals and bus director –just ask the school admin’s how MANY calls they’ve had asking where our bus is/where our children are –bet they’d give you an earfult hat even the principals aren’t aware of!!!
Here’s to the unsung hero – the school admin, polite, willing to answer –I’ve called ours enough to be on a first-name basis. At least she tells me when the kids loaded late or got on different buses for the day in the afternoon. In the morning — what time my child arrived (after school start time) and gives you the yes-they-did-arrive-comfort-level, even though they stopped at another school (unplanned) or the bus broke down.
And she’s pretty darn good at estimating how late they’ll be in the afternoons when I call too
I have three in three schools across the city, with very different start times, so using my own transporation is nearly impossible.
I have lost complete faith in the school bus system. I no longer trust them to take my child to or from school. Fortunately I have the flexibility to take and pick my child up from school. It is worth the effort so that he can start and end his day well. It is very unfortunate that there is not better leadership and organization with the buses.
Glad we don’t use the bus. Still don’t fully understand why so many buses are necessary except for the 8:45 start times which screws up working parents’ schedules.
wow, after reading this I am glad my kids live close enough to walk to school..agreed complete lack of leadership or accountability – sounds like they are at least starting to address it?
It really is ridiculous that in this town of 4 square miles we need that many buses. Whatever happened to walking? If it’s REALLY too far to walk then surely some neighbors can work out a carpool. A lot more people have more flexible work hours nowadays, they don’t all have to be at an office at 9 a.m. If you do have a tight schedule, try a neighborhood listserv to see if someone can help you out with rides or talk to your neighbors. I also find it very amusing that some of the kids that MUST take a bus because they couldn’t possibly walk or bike to school (remember only 4 sq. miles) have no problem walking, biking, or skateboarding all across town to hang out with their friends. Why, when I was young we had to walk miles to school and it was uphill both ways….
This ought to make everyone proud:
CSD budget for current year includes $897,554 for Student Transportation line item.
That’s about $224,388/square mile.
Don’t like that math, try this—
With about 2900 kiddies enrolled, that works out to $309.50/kiddie enrolled. And if we take the superintendent’s 40% to be accurate, then 1160 kids ride buses…or $773.75/rider.
For $773.75/rider, are we getting our money’s worth?
It’s really hard to come up with non-profane ways of saying how appalling that is. It occurs to me that maybe the main reason it’s so difficult to operate the student transportation service in Decatur is because THE TOWN IS TOO SMALL TO NEED IT. How many additional crossing guards could we cover, and still have money left over for, I don’t know, things like teachers and parapros and books and other educational kinds of things, if we stopped this madness?
Do we know if busing is mandated in Georgia? Did we already go over this and I missed it (or forgot it)?
I think that Georgia has no requirement for providing transportation to kids who live within one mile of their schools. I base this opinion on the fact that the State of Georgia does subsize certain bus/transport services for students living more than a mile, and that CSD does get some funding for that.
Disclaimer: NOT AN EXPERT!
However, this impression/opinio is backed up by the Superintendent’s letter:
“7. Parents are placing siblings of children on busses where they don’t belong or are not entitled to ride because the K-3 or 4/5 child is within one mile of the school.”
The word “entitled” jumps out, doesn’t it?
It’s 1.5 miles, not 1, and that has to do with eligibility for state funds. I don’t know if there’s a requirement to provide transportation beyond 1.5 miles, or at all. CSD is being more generous than it needs to by making it 1 instead of 1.5. Another factor is the frequency of stops. I have two stops within 30 yards of my house. If students can be expected to walk half a mile to school, they can walk half a mile to a bus stop, which would simplify the routing a lot and solve several of the listed problems.
A bus runs from Winnona to my house, which is a half mile away, because the crossing at Candler (that is staffed with a crossing guard and often a cop) is considered dangerous. When my kids were at Oakhurst last year, we did not have bus service even though we were .9 miles away. For some reason, the .8 mile trek along the dilapidated, often curbless College Avenue route during rush hour was not considered dangerous. I’m not saying that we should have had bus service to Oakhurst… we should not have. However, I don’t get the bus service to Winnona thing in light of that.
I have walked both routes…. My neighborhood to Winnona is much, much safer than from my neighborhood to Oakhurst.
gotta think some parents squawked about wanting a bus to WP and CSD hopped to it, regardless of whether or not it made the most sense. Hearing a comment like this from a parent who generally strikes me as level-headed and responsible, reinforces my notion that the CSD bus operation has been focusing too much attention on accommodating parental demands and too little on doing what is cost-efficient and sensible. And that’s what makes my head spin round and round when I hear the combination of “the bus system is a mess” and “we’re spending $900k/yr on it.”
This is the first year there was a crossing guard at Kirk and Candler and in the past the crossing guard near Winnona and S. Candler was there for Renfroe and High School times, not WP. Perhaps there won’t be continued bus service to your street in the future if there are crossing guards and the crossing is deemed safe. It could be because the kids at WP are very young, as there isn’t bus service for the middle school kids who cross S Candler going to Renfroe who live within a mile.
We used to have to cross SCandler to get to WP and cars and Marta buses would often run the red light at Kirk. I worry about the crossing guard’s safety at that intersection.
…Marta buses would often run the red light at Kirk….
This is a little off topic, but there needs to be some kind of jihad on reckless driving by MARTA bus operators. Sometime in the last year or two, I actually saw one texting while she was turning a corner in a residential neighborhood. I’ve wished ever since that I’d taken the time to turn around, get the bus number, and report it. It’s not uncommon to see them speeding.
I guess it looks more like a mountain than molehill now!
Well, if you want to really get some profanity going, look at the budget.
I picked up my dead-tree copy at Westchester, at the June Board meeting.
My favorite part might be on page #21, Early Childhood Learning Center: ” Continue providing yoga and music program for student’s development.”
Now, there’s no line-item with that, so we can’t really tell how much we’re paying to teach yoga to….preschoolers. But hey it’s only money, right?
Close 2nd fav is the line item on page #6 for DHS Athletics Personnel which amounts to $321,293 for 79 FTE [Full Time Employees]. Now, that has GOT, GOT, GOT to be a typo, same as “busses” in the letter above. At least I hope. But then, we’re spending nearly $900,000 to transport kids in a 4 sq. mile town, so who knows?
Holy cow poopie! Closing in on a million dollars… four square miles. SIXTEEN buses?
How about this…. FRL kids have free bus service. Non FRL pay $500 per year for bus service. No one gets on the bus without a tag showing that they either paid for the bus or are FRL (the tag would look the same so no one feels bad). K-5 ride the bus together and 6-12 ride the bus together. Bus driver “hands out” discipline citations to anyone who causes a ruckus on the bus. Two citations, and you get one of those dreaded robo calls and a parent conference and the kid has in school suspension. Three citations and the social worker comes to your house and the kids have three days out of school suspension. Four citations and kiss the buss goodbye for the year and the kids have a full week out of school suspension.
Me for school board.
My kids know…… I don’t play.
Re You for School Board: What’s the rule on write-in candidates? I know it’s too late to register as candidate named on the ballot but there’s also some deadline for registering (or whatever it’s called) as a write-in.
I have no problem teaching yoga to preschool kids. Reads to me you may be looking for something to toss into this discussion to rile people up. On the other hand, 79 FTE for student athletics must be a typo. If not, our teams should be better!
From my experience working with the Georgia Department of Education, FTE does not stand for Full Time Employees. It is students, not employees. FTE stands for Full Time Equivalent. From the GEA web site,
“The Quality Basic Education (QBE) Act requires local school systems to report student enrollment in terms of Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) students. State funding for the operation of instructional programs are generated from FTE data reported by local school systems. “
That should read GDOE web site:
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/pea_infosys_data.aspx?PageReq=PEAISDFTE12
Wow! I can take 4 riders. CSD could pay me the $3100 ( or I forgot I already am paying that through taxes).
I promise to never be late.
I promise to drop and pickup at the proper times.
I promise to obey all traffic laws.
I will text arrival and drop off time.
I promise if something happens, I will call immediately so you know.
I will not get lost.
If the student tries to tell me they want to be dropped off at a different location, I will verify it with you.
I drive everyday from my house to FAVE. 3.4 miles exactly.
I could really use the $3100 per carload.
promise the same as SAHM but I can take 5 to RMS – where do I sign up?
SAHM and LDMbot for school board!! I’m tired of this bus nonsense.
+1
I like math. Extending this example…given that there are roughly 180 days in a school year, that works out to be $4.30/per pupil per day or $2.15 per ride.
As a comparison, taxi service in Atlanta is an initial charge of $2.50 plus $2 per mile…
I like where you’re headed. But maybe we can just pay the kids to walk or ride a bike? I bet they’d do it for half price. But alas ga law requires busing. There are some specific requirements about the type of vehicle, distance from school and frequency of stops. Being a charter system we may be able to get a waiver, but if we want one for next year we need to get started now.
I have noticed an improvement on communication. When my daughter’s FAVE bus was combined with another route, the driver told her it would happen the next day and we got a note with the new route after the change occurred. They got a new driver so they separated the routes again and we got two letters and an email with the changes well ahead of time.
We live within in a mile of all our schools but FAVE. So my kids will walk to school 11 out of their 13 years of school. I am grateful that they can walk so many years, but I am also glad that there is bus service available.
I do not agree we should get rid of the busses. It’s far better to have a bus with 40 kids on it than 40 kid’s individually driven to school.
How about 30 kids walking and 10 getting there in a couple of carpools? Isn’t that why minivans were invented and why they’re everywhere in any community with lots of families?
We just moved to the square last week, and I don’t know how I’d manage without the bus to FAVE. 2 miles is too far for my 9yo to walk, and the time to take her to/from school would cut into my work hours. I don’t know any families here on the square with kids in FAVE, so I have no idea how to get in a carpool. Once my daughter is at RMS in two years, she will walk for the next six years. I have my complaints about the buses (after three days of using them), but I’m thankful they are there, esp for the students of the not-centrally located FAVE.
I make it out to be about a mile and a half each way, but still, I agree that’s kind of a hike for 4th grader to do every day, especially if there aren’t others going her way. But I still think there’s gotta be a better way than spending $900k a year to bus kids around such a small area.
I believe there was some chatter at the beginning of the year about meet-up points, whereby parents could drop kids at a rendezvous point and groups of them could walk the rest of the way to school together. No idea if that’s happening or not, but it sounded a good idea to me.
Mapquest gives 1.75 miles, but I think from “Safe Routes” it was 1.9 miles. Either way, too far for a 9yo to walk to and from school each day.
People are stressing b/c a two mile drive cuts into their work day too much? What about the rest of child rearing? That really cuts into my work day a heck of a lot. Come on people!!
Mr. Fixit – Have you sat in the carpool line at FAVE? Two miles isn’t the problem!! If I could plan when her school started, I’d be happy to bike with her or drive her. BUT, I don’t schedule when my conference calls will happen. I have a work life on top of trying to manage my child’s school life. And don’t assume anything about my parenting. My 9yo is starting school for the first time after having been very committedly homeschooled all along by me, her working mother. In addition, I continue to successfully homeschool her 13yo sister. I am an incredibly involved parent. Nonetheless, there exists a bus system. It has issues. Let’s fix them, not abandon the system.
Welcome to Decatur–hope you brought your shinguards!
You chose to homeschool your child for x years. Fine. No problem.
You chose to move to a place near/on Decatur Square. Fine. No problem.
You knew you had a 9 yr-old. yeah.
You chose to reside somewhere that was way too far for that child to walk without supervision.
Your choice. no problem.
But don’t expect the rest of us to subsidize that choice to the tune of US$897,554/year.
Or $773.75/rider, if you prefer.
For that, I’d expect a flashy Hummer with a driver! And big woofers so the bass beat could truly thump.
Eh. I don’t need shin guards. I’m not weak. But thanks for the warm welcome to this new tax-paying, involved citizen. Much appreciated.
Some people can be asses.
And welcome to Decatur. Sounds to me like things are in order in your house (just an expression) and you are well informed. The regulars on the forum can be brutal.
The bus system should work efficiently (I said should). And leadership can’t fix “willy-nilly parents” (ride today/not tomorrow). ’nuff said. The Super has outlined the rules and regs. Snap that little tag on your kid’s bag and be regular about using the bus. It’s like managing a restaurant trying to predict who will be on the buses.
Thanks Sharron …. We’re only on day 3 of using the bus. and I think once we get used to the idiosyncrasies, we’ll be okay. My 9yo was confused riding home because she saw her morning driver and morning bus in the afternoon line, and it was not the right afternoon bus for her. For me, a simple change to the current plan is to have correct signs on the bus — today again, her morning bus was labeled DHS ## and her afternoon bus was labeled ECLC ##. That does not help me or my FAVE girl. I’m happy to have her carry a tag to help the process. And to pay my taxes to make this city progress.
Don’t forget, in Decatur it is all about protecting our sacred property values, and complaining about government spending. What a change. When I moved her 30 years ago Decatur was all about nurturing an inclusive community, creating and celebrating art, etc. People were much more friendly.
We are all subsidizing other people’s choices in one way or another, especially when it comes to schools.
I think it’s fine to question the amount it’s costing, and routes. But taking aim at GSK for utilizing a service provided, does nothing to change the actual problem.
When the whole dust-up over the bell schedule came about, there were suggestions about how to cut the costs by not having so many busses, and not leasing them from Dekalb. Perhaps it’s time to revive that discussion.
*GBK
Thanks Rebeccab. My children are not the “poster children” for school bus issues, but I can empathize with those who might be. Perhaps the buses are too big. Perhaps the routes are too inefficient. Perhaps there are better solutions. I’d love to be part of the discussion, not dismissed outright because I chose to move to the center of Decatur with a 4th grader in my household… Had we moved here last year, and she were a 4th grader, she would have been at Glennwood, 5 blocks away! I would have had no control over her going to FAVE this year. It is what it is.
Um, why shouldn’t she expect it? Isn’t that what we currently do?
Want me to stereotype free-range parents for you? Because I can do that too.
And btw, I’ve gotten the feeling lately that we all look at these budget numbers and the only thing we compare them to is our own finances. “Damn, a million dollars would do great things for my $401k contribution!”.
And is $800/yr really all that much to shuttle our kids to and from school? Seems pretty cheap to me.
I don’t think it’s a matter of looking at the bus budget in the context of our own finances. I think it’s more a matter of watching multiple buses stop near my house, multiple times a day, seeming to serve very few kids each time; knowing the maximum possible distance for anybody to travel from their home inside the city limit to any CSD school is well under 3 miles; seeing the amount of attention and resources spent on trying to get kids to be more active, while we’re spending $900k a year to make sure they have a ride to school….! I know it’s not that simple, but I am also convinced it’s not as complicated as it’s being made out to be.
In some ways it is pretty simple. A good set of routes from day one of school would have avoided a lot of delayed buses (which led to some students “bus stop hopping” and some families resorting to driving again) and schedule changing without notice (which upset parents who were trying to plan and instill good morning routines) and overcrowding on certain buses (which led to discipline issues and bus driver reactions that then frightened some well-behaved children and upset parents). Every year, a few weeks before school, parents start hunting around for bus schedules so they can plan well, have trouble finding them until the last minute, and then when they see them, scratch their heads and go “Huh?” Good hiring and training of bus drivers this year, knowing that transportation would be more complex this year, would have prepared the drivers better and avoided some of the understandable mistakes they have made. We have had some wonderful, adaptable, professional bus drivers in the past so I know they exist! For what CSD is paying, the Transportation office ought to be proactive, not reactive. It’s not a world tragedy, as some like to point out, but it’s also not what I’d expect for $900,000/year or $800/student/year.
Don’t know what a “free range parent” is, but as to your point about finances ["I’ve gotten the feeling lately that we all look at these budget numbers and the only thing we compare them to is our own finances."], why shouldn’t we look at the budget numbers with our personal finances in mind?
We pay high property taxes here in Decatur. For some folks, especially older folks, the property taxes are a real burden. We ought to expect that money to be spent wisely and efficiently. CSD does not give the perception of frugality. Some of that $897K is perfectly defensible [special needs, transporting kids who live more than a mile to FAVE, etc], but when you read the posts here about buses stopping every 30 yards, unresponsive transportation director, buses that show up late or never, you know your taxes are not being spent wisely or frugally.
aggie, not all of us made these choices. I chose a house many years ago that was close enough to the “neighborhood elementary school” that my children could walk. By the time they were in middle school, they would be old enough to walk there too, and then to the centrally located high school. Walking to school was supremely important for my family. Unfortunately our “neighborhood elementary school” was repurposed and for the past 8 years my kids had to ride the bus to elementary school.
Now my 4th grader has to ride the bus to FAVE, which is 3.5 miles from my doorstep. There’s no way she’s walking or riding a bike. Since I have to be at work early, the 8:45 start time has been a challenge. The buses have made it even more challenging because the arrival time can vary up to 30 minutes. I have given up on the buses and driven her on multiple occasions since August 2, afraid that it would never show up.
One thing I love is that we are supposed to be patient while the new bus drivers (new one every week, it seems) learn the routes. What? Isn’t that something they should be doing on off-hours so that they can run the routes on schedule? Craziness.
The bus debacle has been a nightmare for my family this year. Just one more example of CSD making huge changes (building a 4/5 at the edge of the city instead of centrally located; using start times that make no sense) and not thinking through the consequences.
Are you suggesting that Westchester should have been considered for the 4/5? Because I would say that that building is on the very edge of the city and not centrally located either.
Tiptoe:
Right you are–I would never, ever let a child of mine walk from the Westchester area to FAVE, especially in the morning during rush hour.
Your family’s experience (and it sounds like you’re far from alone) this year is absolutely inexcusable. But as you put it: ” Just one more example of CSD making huge changes (building a 4/5 at the edge of the city instead of centrally located; using start times that make no sense) and not thinking through the consequences.”
It is a mess, and an expensive one at that. Had they shown the slightest bit of creativity and/or flexibility, I am fully confident that a plan could have been developed to get kids who live more than a mile to/from school for much, much less than $897,554.
Carpool line time arrival time to pickup: 2.5 minutes
I leave my house at 3:40 drive the 3.2 pickup child and drive home 3:58.
I get stuck on college to candler everyday. darn Dekalb for no lead light!
+1
Carpools are good, but It would be difficult for me to drive in one with my work schedule and having kids at three schools. I was home for a furlough day and a holiday and was able to walk my child to school on those days but it’s nearly two miles from our house and I would not like a 9 year old to do it herself, which she would have to do. I could not reliably be able to pick her up from school if it was raining.
If those 30 kids could walk they would already be doing it, probably.
What does your nine year old do after school once she gets home? If she’s not in after care, don’t you need to be home by the time she gets there? Bus service is not free childcare.
Bus service != free childcare. Seriously. My 13yo can get my 9yo from the bus stop, but cannot drive to get her from school!!
I am always home by the time she’s home from the bus stop. If aliens abduct me on the way home she has her older brother to look out for her and neighbors who will help both of them in an emergency. Don’t worry
We had no problems with the bus last year but this year is a mess. The sad part is that I think people who can, just abandon buses when they get complicated and that just increases the cost per student, the inefficiency.
It does boil the blood to have heard all the drama about how buses were driving start times, costs and issues around buses and now to have a system that seems so fragile. The communication has been problematic but it seems they are trying to address now. Of course with the classic slightly scolding tone of most district communication but I try not to dwell on that.
While I am at it….. I am was just today saying with a slightly cranky sigh that I really don’t like the big spread between the k-3 and 4/5. We have close to 2 hours between those two end times. I am wondering what % of families have kids in both. If we are to have this configuration the two schools should really be evaluated strategically together for logistical issues.
I too might take a part time gig of a few thousand dollars to transport a few kids though!
Well, FAVE and Refroe are the same hours so once you get past the k-3 age, the kids will be on the same schedule again. I will have kids at 3 different schools for the next 5 years, so probably any bell schedule will be inconvenient for my family. K-12 schools, anyone?
Renfroe, I mean
To clarify that the two hours includes the bus transport time. We live close to the K-3 so child in hand at 2:35 and child from 4/5 off the bus at 4:20.
Use of mini van carpooling – my experience, someone who drives the carpool is always chronically late, some has a sick child the morning they are to drive, someone has to coordinate all of the carpool logistics – who drives what…feels just like the bus all of a sudden!
Informal carpools would work. Unfortunately, anyone who tries to do it as a business will run into insurance and liability costs. Those issues have stopped some SAHMs with great ideas about coop after school care.
You guys. Come on. It’s ridiculous to question the wholesale need for the bus system. Lots of kids and parents (including me) rely on this timely and safe transportation for their kids on a daily basis. Not everyone is privileged to have access to a minivan or carpool, and many children are simply not old enough to walk or bike on their own.
I feel grateful that we have this option available although I agree there is room for improvement in terms of communication of schedule changes. However, this is an administrative issue, not a bus driver issue. The bus drivers we have had have been great.
Ps. ‘buses’ not ‘busses’. We are talking about transportation, not kisses.
Actually, I looked the plural of bus up in the dictionary when I saw that the Superintendent’s letter said “busses” and, to my surprise, one variant of the plural is “busses” even though most of us were taught “buses”.
+1 .. I too cringe at busses, though I think it might be an alternative spelling …
I’m with Liz, as far as kissing goes…
A buss from your beau/belle is a kiss; plural would then be “busses,” if you were inclined to favor that beau/belle with extra opportunity.
But to dispute Liz, the bus (big, yellow, diesel-fume-belching thing) should not be carrying able-bodied kiddos who live within a mile of their school.
That is why [I thought] we had so very many K-3 schools—so everybody could go to school in their VERY OWN neighborhood.
But then, I’m fairly new to Decatur, so maybe I don’t know the rules?
I believe CSD bus service is only for those who live more than a mile from their school, with exceptions like dangerous streets and special Ed.
You know, rereading the Superintendent’s letter, I was reminded of something that came up during the first 2-3 weeks at DHS. LOTS AND LOTS of kids were standing in line for tardy slips, sometimes missing entire 1st period because the attendance office was not fuctioning properly. Most of the tardy kids were from the south side of the tracks (at least that was what was reported).
Traffic and trains across the tracks, we were told, were not a basis for an excused tardy. Furthermore, I believe the official response from CSD was that they were teaching a “life lesson” about showing up on time.
But now we read that, “… any number of situations could exist concurrently: a traffic jam or auto accident, a student who boarded the wrong bus, a driver not reporting to work due to illness.” Now CSD wants “… help and patience as [they] improve, desirous of quality service while managing costs.”
But don’t worry, after January 2012, (1/2 way through the year) the bus schedule will really be finally set.
What do you suppose the “life lesson” for that is?
The rationales for one schedule vs. another never added up. CSD leadership would have been better off just being straightforward about the difficult logistics and choices rather than coming up with rationales that conflicted with previous rationales. And they should have been willing to accept help. Several well-meaning parents tried to give feedback to the Transportation Office when the viability of the bus routes seemed dubious even before school started but they either received no response or a defensive one. Many of these are parents of younger children, fairly new to the system, and they had no preconceptions about Central Office. They do now.
+1
That sometimes the dog really does eat your homework?
I
Oh my God. Thank you for this thread. I was just beginning to think that since we are back living in the paradise of COD, maybe we should start having kids to take advantage of the great schools. Phew. Good thing to know that things are still so freaking awful.
BTW, by 4th grade I walked 1.5 miles each way to school. Apparently it taught me that my parents and the school system hated me and hoped that I would die. I cannot believe that I survived…
To paraphrase the farewell of our fallen hero Gibbetts…the stuff people will complain about.
Why is Gibbets our fallen hero?
Well, of course he’s not a hero, silly. Maybe an anti-hero? And for the ‘fallen’ part, I assume fallen on his own sword as per his post on the food trucks last week – “I have to say–as a parting word–, Jesus the sh** Decurites will complain about.”
And he hasn’t been back?
Wait, you were a kid once? Yikes.
Not really. I’m actually like Benjamin Button. I was born old and wise and have been regressing steadily ever since…
I suspect the line item for “student transportation” includes field trips, travel for athletic events and other competitions. It’s still a lot of money. Also, I’m not advocating the picking apart of the budget. I’ve said for years that public school curriculum should include both yoga and etiquette lessons starting in kindergarten or younger, so I have no gripe with teaching yoga at CHECLC.
Still, $900k sounds like a lot of money for an operation that clearly has some inefficiencies built in. If I were in a position to do so (which, THANKFULLY, I’m not), I’d do the following:
Stop operating separate buses for different age groups, it’s expensive and nonsensical. If older children can’t or won’t behave appropriately around younger children, that is not a bus problem. It’s something mroe serious that should be addressed forthwith.
Give bus drivers authority to issue “trouble tickets” on misbehaving children, with escalating consequences as described by Mr. Fixit.
If Susie’s bus to Renfroe is going to stop at her little brother’s K3 on the way, let her little brother ride, too, even if it’s within the mile radius, as long as the bus is making those stops anyway. If the neighbor K3 kid with no older siblings is ready and waiting with Susie and her brother at their house, let him ride, too. Next year when Susie is getting herself to DHS and not riding the bus, the little kids are out of luck. But maybe there will be another neighbor flagging a “legitimate” stop and they can hook on.
Do whatever is necessary to tighten up the afternoon schedules as much as possible, then train parents to expect the amount of variability that can’t be absolutely controlled.
I don’t know what can be done about parents using the system haphazardly, which obviously creates hindrances. Imposing a system of monetary fines would be my first suggestion, but that’s because I’m very cranky about this whole topic.
Let’s be clear that there are legitimate and not so legitimate reasons for intermittent use of the school bus:
Legitimate reasons that a “bus student” isn’t riding the bus on a particular morning/afternoon:
– Child rides bus to school but goes to after school program every day or certain days of the week
– Child is out sick
– Child is up all night with illness/nosebleed/flying roaches whatever so parent lets them sleep later that morning and drives them to school instead of having them get up at earlier hour to catch bus
– Working parent has one day off per week and that morning the child/parent walk/roll to school (activity which is heavily promoted) and/or walk/roll home in the afternoon
– Child is picked up after school at 3:45 PM for 4:00 Girl Scout meeting or dance class or sports activity on certain days, e.g. Monday/Wednesday; could be parent doing the picking up or babysitter
– Child is picked up after school ad hoc for doctor’s appointment
– Child misses the bus. It happens. I still have nightmares about running for the bus through the woods in front of my childhood home carrying an armful of books and then tripping….
Less legitimate reasons to ride irregularly:
– Changing bus stop from one assigned without getting permission from Transportation
– Riding home with a friend on unassigned bus (actually I’m never sure if this is kosher or not if parent signs permission slip and has already submitted a Transportation form. CSD please clarify because I’ve gotten different guidance over the years).
– Getting off at unassigned stop (but see question above)
– Rarely riding the bus but then expecting it to be there without checking with Transportation first
That’s a mix of “reasons” for intermittent bus use and “methods” of intermittent bus use. Of course, kids get sick. But most of the other examples you offer are things that get planned ahead of time and/or are more or less consistent (parent’s weekly day off). Do you disagree with my basic premise?
My point is that consistent intermittent use is legitimate. It shouldn’t be all or nothing–either ride the bus every day, both ways, or not.
Something that is suggested year after year, but never seems to go anywhere, is that the Transportation Forms, that are collected every year from every child riding the bus, could be better used. What’s published on the bus routes for estimated number of riders bears no relationship to the forms filed (e.g. our stop often says zero even though I file a form/child annually). Additionally, the forms collect little useful information but could–e.g. an approximation of how often per week will the bus be used, morning vs. afternoon vs. both, or whether or not a young 4 – 6-year old child has permission to walk home alone from the bus stop. Now a good bus driver knows all that info informally within a week of the start of school, especially for the little ones, and a good parent meets the bus several times in the beginning of the year and makes sure the bus driver knows that info, but the changing of routes and bus drivers has interfered with that communication this year. A Transportation Form could be documentation of such info, a copy of which is kept on the bus just in case the driver doesn’t remember or a substitute is driving. If a major change in schedule occurs, e.g. a child who was formerly in after-care is now riding the bus home to a babysitter or the child who usually walk and rolls now needs to ride the bus home in the afternoon because they broke their leg, then parents could be required to file an updated Transportation Form.
Charging a fee for bus use alleviates some of the “occasional rider” problems. If a parent has to fork out several hundred a year for a bus pass, they will really think hard about whether it make sense for them. This will help curtail intermittent use. Also, it would make sure that bus space is at least paid for regardless of whether it is actually used, which reduces waste of CSD funds.
This also helps to stabilize bus stops b/c they can base it on actual forms for FRL kids plus paying non-FRL kids at each stop. They do not have to guess based on who they see at the bus stop on any particular day. You just use the forms… if a kid seldom rides… that’s not CSD’s problem b/c their spot is paid for anyway.
I see the logic to this system. And If a fee pushed a lot of families into walk and roll, it would have added benefits. If parents were paying for bus transportation, either fully or on a sliding-fee scale, it might improve the quality and responsiveness of the transportation office. But if a fee pushed families into more car drop-off at school, not so good. And the law is the law–I don’t know whether charter systems would be given waivers for the bus transportation requirement.
True. And most of the kids in my neighborhood who do walk to school sometimes with their parents still ride the bus home.
Two things:
1. We should just give the little darlings golf carts and let them figure it out.
2. For the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone would want to be on the school board.