Decatur Superintendent Suggests Revised Bell Schedule to School Board

82 thoughts on “Decatur Superintendent Suggests Revised Bell Schedule to School Board”

1. 
   

2. First reaction: Could be worse.

   BUT I reserve judgment until I see the actual bus routes and schedules. The key to family organization in the morning is exactly what time real children have to leave the house washed, dressed, fed, medicine taken, teeth-brushed, and with homework in backpack. Whether they take the bus also depends on the length of ride and how much ahead of the bell they get to school. Of course, the prediction model varies by child. Some love the ride around Decatur, getting to school early and watching the maintenance staff, perhaps eating the school breakfast, and accessing their locker (if permitted). Others crave every last second of shut-eye (and will receive fair retribution when they have their own children, I hope).

4. athletics is not the greatest priority of school. that should be way down the list. would you rather your child suffer academically to facilitate the football team. i’m not. high school should be the on the latest schedule. all the studies prove it. doesn’t the stadium have lights?

   1. The stadium does have lights, but the football team isn’t the only athletic event happening. There’s baseball, volleyball, lacross, track, tennis and more I don’t remember…maybe even swimming. It’s not just to let the athletes practice, either. If a team has to play another team across town, they’ve got to get there in Atlanta traffic. Plus, there are quite a few students who do better in school as a result of the discipline and rigor of athletics.

      While I agree that athletics should not be the primary factor, I don’t think we should throw it out the window, either.

      My daughter is a sleepyhead. If you made school at noon she’d still have a hard time getting there. But she’ll be UGA’s problem this fall, when this goes into effect.

   2. It would be nice to get more background on exactly what the hardships of a 3:30-3:35 PM end time have been and how many students have been affected. Is it just football? Or also soccer, baseball, cross-country, basketball, lacrosse, swimming, girls teams as well as boys teams, etc ? An early start schedule affects every last child in the high school whether or not they ever step onto an athletic field or court. And it affects the athletes too. Their learning and grades are at stake as well as the non-athletes. In the end, how many athletes will get a college scholarship or work related to their high school athletics? But all of them will need a sound education, not just passing the CRCT, to advance in life. I don’t know the answers to these questions but we need to consider the unintended consequences as well as the intended benefits. The unintended consequences seem to get us every time. The issues of transportation costs were sort of discussed for the ~13 options presented to the last Reconfiguration Committee. But not enough evidently from the letter above and not the implications for school schedules.

6. This is another step in a positive direction. Which will perhaps make no one completely happy and may therefore represent a reasonable compromise 🙂 On the positive side, I suspect this proposal may require the fewest number of buses. And the late start time for 4/5 would likely increase walking and biking to school. On the down side, I still see this as a bad choice for DHS students.

   It would be nice to see an option which puts students’ academic interests first. Namely, a plan which starts the youngest children earliest and progresses to later start times as they get older. If the difference between the plans comes down to whether or not to add a bus… Then the difference is a budget issue. And that is a BoE decision.

   I recognize that Dr. Edwards keeps mentioning:

   > high school students to get out a little earlier than last year to allow
   > more time to participate in after school tutoring, activities and more time
   >for athletics to use the fields for practice groups.

   The research shows that this logic is flawed. Earlier start times have been shown to reduce student participation in extra-curricular activities. As to the rest… Earlier start times may provide more time after school. Later start times provide more time _before_ school.

   I’m also not sure what to make of the following:

   > If we added a single route and separate time for the 4/5
   > Academy and used a separate set of buses, there would be an
   > additional cost associated with adding approximately 6-7 buses.

   I think this could only occur if there was a requirement for every school to start at the same time (or within the same bus round trip window). -As the proposal states that K-3 + 4/5 + RMS + DHS collectively require 18 buses. Two more if College Heights is included.

   The other issue which hasn’t really be addressed, is why it takes buses 45 minutes for a round trip. I suspect it is because in many cases, like the stops along my street, we have bus stops within 140 yards of one another. This may be done in order to appease parents who would like to be able to see their children waiting at a bus stop. Or perhaps to keep total head counts at bus stops below the point where supervision is required.

   If the number of bus stops were reduced significantly without putting the maximum walking distance over a 1/4 mile or total head counts at a single stop above 15 w/o supervision… Then I would guess the round trip on our bus routes would drop closer to 30 minutes than 45.

   Which brings me back to the desire to see what the trade-offs would be for an option which has later start times for older students:

   [6-7 buses]
   8:00a-2:30p – K-3’s
   8:45a-3:45p – RMS + DHS

   [6 buses]
   8:00a-??? – College Heights
   8:45a-3:45p – 4/5

   The extent to which bus route round trips could be reduced from 45 minutes, would give us the leeway to shrink the gap between start times at the schools. Perhaps even allowing us to keep approximately the same start times as we currently use.

   The current CSD proposal provides the option of having 1-2 extra buses to offer bus services to College Heights. This would bring the total required number of buses to 12 + 1-2 for ESS. The proposal I’ve given might be able to match this… or it might require an additional more bus.

8. I agree with Garrett that this feels like a reasonable compromise.

   I am hopeful that more 4-5 academy parents will consider letting kids bike to school given the later start time and after the “Safe Routes to School” reconnaissance work is complete.

   My soon to be middle school student will be excited if this gets approved.

   1. Cannot wait to find out results of Safe Routes reconnaissance. For years, have been trying to find a good route from Westchester neighborhood to Kavanna’s (closest coffee shop to Fifth Avenue). We’ve found that the safe routes are pretty roundabout and require some sidewalk riding, traffic laws be damned. Maybe there’s a secret tunnel or shortcut like in Candyland or Uncle Wiggly. Go right from square 52 to 83!

10. I’m still trying to find something to complain about…

    1. I have no doubt you will succeed

12. Maybe I’m being unrealistic and I admit that I struggle with getting my 1st and 5th grader to bed on time but some of these teenagers probably need to get to bed earlier to get the necessary sleep.That’s something the school system can’t do anything about. And if they are up texting until 2 a.m., take the phone away. I know I’ll probably pay for these comments when mine become teenagers. Having said that, this is the best option so far. I’m surprised that most parents want their 4th and 5th graders to ride the bus to school. I’m hoping I can walk with mine when he gets to 5th Avenue. If that start time still exists when he’s there, that will make walking or biking there a possibility.

    1. There’s some weird developmental phenomenon that evidently crosses cultures and parenting styles and is well documented in science. Teens, on average, have a harder time falling asleep early, need more sleep than they did a few years earlier, and have a hard time getting up early. Earlybirds become sloths. My guess is that it’s hormonal plus the incredible growth spurts and rapid body development some of them go through. I think that’s why many college classes don’t start until 10 AM or later. I am glad the Board insisted that no schools start before 8:00 AM.

       I’m not saying that there aren’t parenting and discipline issues for some teens. But I don’t think the whole biologic phenomenon can be ascribed to teens being staying up past midnight. There’s teens–I was one of them–who need to get in bed by 9:30 PM or they will be exhausted the next day if they have to get up at 7 AM. It made my adjustment to college quite difficult since I needed my beauty sleep and the dorms were hopping until the wee hours! (Of course, I eventually developed the ability to stay up to 4 AM like the rest of the college population!)

14. Am I correct in assuming the new plan continues to provide for separate buses for different age groups? If so, how much efficiency — in terms of both time and money — are we sacrificing in order to do that?

    1. A variable we need is how full are the buses. I’ve never understood the bus routes. If you go out at the end of the day at any of the schools, you’ll see buses filled to the brim and buses that seem almost empty. And what shows up on the transportation tab on the CSD website is some weird reports that have counts of kids that seem to bear no relationship to who really lives on the street and/or shows up at the bus stop. Sometimes the bus numbers (e.g. bus #65) on the report are correct, sometimes not. I used to try to figure out those reports and plan around them but I gave up. It’s trial and error for the first two weeks of school to figure out which bus comes and when, where it stops, by what route, and who is on it. I actually think that the kids and bus drivers work out a few things amongst themselves informally because the official documentation makes no sense. Some of the most important folks in the school system to get to know (and to reward on holidays) are the bus drivers. That’s the most vulnerable part of the day for children as parents know who have had their young child left at school by mistake or take the bus home on the wrong day when no one is waiting at the bus stop or forget to get off at the right stop or have had their older child feel uncomfortable with the social scene on the bus. Conversely, for some kids, the bus is their favorite part of the day and they look forward to the ride and seeing their friends. At least it’s mass transit and not one more minivan dropping off a single student. I love our bus drivers.

       1. Agree the bus drivers are important folks, with crucial roles in not only keeping children safe but also making sure they feel safe and secure. But again, my question is whether, as a matter of policy, CSD operates separate buses for little kids and older kids?

          1. I’m not sure whether it is more of an issue of policy or institutional inertia. The inscrutable bus routes have looked the same to me every year from the very first year my oldest entered kindergarten to now and probably will remain the same until my youngest graduates high school. I see no evidence that all those transportation forms we fill out for each child every year have any impact on those pdf files. You can go to http://www.csdecatur.net/transportation/ and see. The only thing that really seems to count is what the real life bus driven by the real life bus driver does.

16. I am still not happy that the high school is starting at 8. My high schooler walks probably about 45 minutes (slow, with her friends) to get there each day, and I can tell you she won’t be walking if she has to be there at 8:00. Again, I’d like to see the ones who can get themselves to school going last, and the ones who can’t going first. Just makes sense.

    This is still starting the high school 35 minutes earlier than they do now.

    The elementary times are fine, but I was hoping Julie Rhame’s suggestion (from the last board meeting) of the youngest going earliest and the oldest going latest would be taken seriously.

    1. 45 minutes to walk to school?
       So the entire high school schedule should be amended so your daughter can enjoy her leisurely walk?

18. I still feel that high school should start at 8:45 instead of 8:00. This is a little backwards.

20. i guess it could be worse.

    For me personally – and I’m not saying it should change for me. For me personally with kids in K-3 and 4/5 the spread of times will mean a big change. 1 hour and 15 min spread between dismissals at the end of the day will be tricky. Do we go home? Can the younger do any activities before 4:15 without dashing here and there during the activity to get the older child?

    The current bell schedule is very tight and makes it difficult so perhaps the spread is better.

    I think this issue is only relevant for the 4/5 and k-3 who are young enough to be supervised going and coming from school and where many parents have kids in both schools.

22. I am glad that CSD is encouraging walking and biking to school for the elementary grades by delineating the eligibility for ridership to outside a 1 mile radius of the school and starting school later (for the 4/5 school). I think that this could easily be expanded for the middle and high school students to be 1.5 miles. This would further reduce the number of buses required and that might then allow for a later start time at the high school too.

24. Growing up, my family lived right outside the 1 mile radius that kept us from riding the bus to elementary school (1-7 back then). We walked and biked every day and didn’t know any better. I’m for getting rid of ALL bus routes.

    1. I’m in favor of getting rid of bus routes for elementary and high school. I think we still need them for 4/5 and middle, because these students are not always old enough to walk by themselves. We are 3.1 miles from 5th Ave so my 4th grader would not be able to walk that and get there at a reasonable time. High schoolers can walk themselves and elementary kids will be close enough to walk or ride.

26. As the parent of a high schooler, I think it was important to advocate that school not start at 7:30 or 7:45. As far as advocating for a later start time than 8:00, it may be possible that the high school students want to get out at 3:00. If the majority of students haven’t said anything, maybe the start time isn’t a big deal to them.

    From the description of the bus use, it sounds like Decatur High has its own buses and could start at any time as long as the route finished early enough to run a second route.

    1. Got to agree that the high schoolers aren’t pulling their weight in this controversy. Maybe someone forgot to facebook them?

28. I will be one to say I hate this! I will have one at the elementary level and one at the 4/5 and I need to be to work by 8. What am I supposed to do with my older child? Why can’t the high school start later? Why a 45 minute delay between schools?

    1. Carpool?

       1. Walk or bike with neighbors or friends?

    2. Will the bus work? If you are early on the route, I’ll bet the bus will come by around 7:45 in the morning because it has to get to Fifth Avenue about 1/2 hour before the start of school so that kids who need the free/reduced lunch can get it. But that only leaves you 15 minutes to get to work and what if the bus is late? Sorry. Public school systems are still designed as though we are an agrarian society with crops to tend in the summer, men out in the fields, and women with aprons tending the chickens and babies and cooking up a storm at the farmhouse.

       1. In an earlier thread, the need for “before care” as well as “after care” came up. This is an unmet need for single working parents and ALL single parents are working parents–the days of SAHWMs (stay at home welfare moms) are long over (darn it, that was always my Plan B). It’s also an umet need for two career families either with children at multiple schools and start times and/or one or both parents with jobs requiring real early starts.

          1. I have to be at work at 7:15–I don’t know how I’d fare as a single mom! I think we’ll put our middle child on the bus for 5th Avenue. It’s nearly 2 miles from our house and the route isn’t one I would like her to bike without an adult. I’m all for biking and walking to school, but the reality is that everyone will not be able to do so to 5th avenue. And the bus is mass transit– much better for the environment than dropping her off and picking her up by car. My other two can walk to their schools.

       2. Eliminate the summer break! 😉

    3. This is going to be an issue for a lot of our teachers too. Many of the K-3 teachers have kids in CSD so what are they to do with their 4/5 or RMS kids when they have to be in their own classroom by 7.30-8am? 4th and 5th grade kids surely are too young to be unsupervised for an hour or more before school and I doubt they can be relied on to get themselves to school.

       1. Why can’t 4th & 5th graders be relied upon to get to school? Mine has done it for two years and my 2nd grader started this spring. And they aren’t alone. There are a pile of other kids who do the very same thing every day from Oakhurst to Glennwood. Its a beautiful thing to kiss your kiddies goodbye in your jammies on the front porch! Ok, so its pretty hard to do the first time, but oh, my does it get easier!

          1. My point was that many folks, minivanmomma and a lot of our teachers, would have to leave home well before the kids need to leave to get to work for 7.30am. I wonder if parents could safely leave their 4th graders there alone to get up, eat breakfast, get themselves ready and off to school, locking up the house etc. Is that something most parents of a 9/10 year old feel comfortable doing? Seems like it’d be too much responsibility for most.

          2. Some parents aren’t in their comfortable jammies–they are long gone to work!

          3. Thank you Squeaky.

30. RE: High school athletics and activities

    In addition to the obvious sports using the “fields”, there are other competitive and/or performance programs at the high school level. Non-academic time is needed for Band, Orchestra, Theater, Chorus, Debate, Literary Events, Math Team – are there others at DHS?

    And now for an apples-oranges discussion … the largest district in GA and us – one of the smallest.

    Gwinnett high school hours for most or all of the 20+ high schools begin between 7:00 and 7:30 am and end between 2:00 and 2:30 pm. This schedule is decades in use. I think it’s difficult to argue with the district’s academic, activity, and athletic successes over time.

    I believe it’s time for the Board, in consideration of all feedback received and the expert opinions from staff, to consider the Superintendent’s recommendation and make a swift decision for 2011-2012 so families can make plans. And then it’s time for support … for parents, teachers, other adults to frame comments positively in front of observing children even if it’s not ideal for your household. In this case the cheerleader gets the worm!

    1. My version of Webster’s dictionary defines extracurricular: 1. not falling within the scope of a regular curriculum; 2. lying outside one’s regular duties or routine.

       That being the case, student participation in the math, knitting or football teams clearly is a secondary responsibility, for both students AND administrators. You don’t design the high school to “enable” more kids to play football or the trombone.

       Yet more time for after-school activities seems to be Dr. Edwards’ rationale.

       Question: If it is a good idea for Renfro kids to get a later start [“The public comments centered around the research related to the needs of adolescents to have more sleep.”], why isn’t that same reasoning applied to the high school?

32. 1. Typo in letter
    2. Just switch 4/5 and high school times
    Done

    1. +1

    2. + 2

       But I have to admit that I talked to a single working mom last night who said that the new schedule helps her. Her high schooler will now walk home in time to watch her Fifth Avenuer who will get home a little later by bus.

       However, it wouldn’t have helped if the younger one were in K-3 and got off the bus while the older one was still walking home. And minivanmomma’s post shows that a different age range of children means that this schedule change is a hardship in the morning. All the individual variations on this story are a consequence of using the sequential short grade span configuration of schools; hence, we all have to have empathy for one another as we figure out how to adapt. Even full-time SAHMs have a hard time–two or more children at different schools means having to be at more than one place at the same time or close together whether you are working or not. I am probably the only person in Decatur who would be happy with a preK-6 model. I like the educational continuity, community, and logistical simplicity that model would offer and most importantly, I would like to allow our children to be children, vs. preteens, as long as possible. Preteen used to mean age 11-12 but I think it is unfortunately creeping down to age 9-10 and the 4/5 model reinforces that development. Keeping children in elementary school longer would be an even higher priority for me than having a neighborhood school less than a mile away. But that’s a pipedream, not anything within the Decatur realm of possibility.

34. For many families having the K-3 and the 4/5 start at the same time (as swapping the HS and 4/5 would do) would be very problematic. I think that should be a guiding principle in formulating start times, that there be a reasonable spread to allow families with children at both schools to help their children get to school – even with carpools etc if they are too close it is very tricky. Which is why many of us long for longer grade spans. But that aside. Let’s just make it possible to get your kids to school K-5.

    I wonder what the % of families in CSD that have multiple kids at schools K-3 and K-4?

36. I do not understand why we need buses for the high school! Most of the students do not ride the bus anyway. This is a huge waste of money. If you just cut the buses for the high school, you can start at 8:30 or 8:45. I know that we need buses for sporting teams and some academic teams. However, you can have those buses held in reserve and just not use them for commuting. I went to school in a similar city system (a 20 sq. mi. city) and there was no bussing! We made it to school by carpooling, walking, etc. The high school and middle school are located in the center of Decatur, near the largerst housing authority sites. They are an easy walk or bike. I think we need a new motto: NO BUSES FOR HIGH SCHOOL! STOP WASTING OUR MONEY!

    1. Are there any high school parents who oppose this? While I think most high school students are walking, even the former bus enthusiasts, I do occasionally see some students at the “high school bus stop” in our area. Are these perhaps students who cannot walk for some reason–medical reason? Some morning activity that prevents them from getting an early enough start? Other?

       And what about bad weather? What do the DHS walking students do currently during a downpour or lightning? I don’t think the high school allows them to wait inside–they either have to leave promptly at the end of school or have a pass for meeting with a teacher or be in an approved activity/club. Do they call home? Wait at Chick Fil A? Get drenched?

       1. I agree with EcoNuke. Bus service for the high schoolers is a waste of money.

          My high schooler walks, even in the rain or freezing temps. If we drive her, it is usually because I’M the one who doesn’t want her walking, either because of lightning or torrential rain. in the afternoons if it’s a downpour she gets a ride from a friend or waits for me at the school or CFA. Otherwise, she almost always walks. Riding the bus or her bike is out of the question (to her).

          I do think the high schoolers should start at 8:45.

    2. One more thought: Is there a legal/state requirement to provide bus transportation to high school students beyond a certain distance from the high school? If so, there may be no option to cancel all buses for high schoolers. I’m pretty sure that at least some high school students reside more than 1 1/2 miles from DHS, at least by surface streets vs. as the crow flies. But, even so, we could probably reduce the number of buses by only providing service to those who live beyond the transportation requirement and those with a temporary or permanent medical or other disability requiring transportation.

    3. AGREED!
       Why perfectly healthy high schoolers cannot walk to DHS, which is located in the CENTER of Decatur, is a mystery to me. And if there are a few, maybe on the periphery, why couldn’t they get on the same bus as the RMS kids, and then walk from RMS to DHS. It is NOT too far. Put the RMS & DHS start times together like they are now at 8:30 and eliminate buses. What’s not to love?

38. @ Karass:
    Yes, there are high school parents who oppose moving the DHS start time up 30 minutes in order to accomodate extracurricular activities (Drama club, football, knitting, makes no difference).
    Pairing the high school with the elementary schools makes no sense, especially since RMS & DHS are, I don’t know, about 200 yards apart. And for those of us who will have kids at both RMS & DHS, the 45 minute gap will definitely pose problems. We cannot drop off the 6th grader 45 minutes before school—they won’t let them in.

40. College courses start at 8. Might as well start preparing the high school kids.

    Adjust and adapt.

    1. Actually, college courses tend to start relatively late except at commuter schools, often 10 AM. I’m not sure whether that’s because college students are older adolescents or because college professors like to start late (maybe they are delayed adolescents….?) The one exception is science courses with labs. It’s a double whammy–you have to take a lab AND start early.

       1. When I was at ASC, the earliest class was 9:25 am. Grad school both times the classes were afternoons.

          1. I had 8:00 a.m. classes every day for four years. And I did not go to a commuter school.

             What time does work start? For most of us, 8:00 a.m. Do you complain to your boss?

             Kids these days are spoiled. Let’s get them ready for the real world at a younger age so it’s not such a shock later in life. Too many of our younger workers are not punctual, can’t write (thanks, text messaging) and don’t know how to work hard. Why cater to them now? The world won’t cater to them later.

             1. You might as well say: the world these days is flat…

                I know some folks grit their teeth every time someone says… the research says… Admittedly, not all research is good. And you can often find research to match your opinion.

                But if your opinion isn’t backed by good evidence based research… it is just an opinion.

                Kids these days may be spoiled. But the data behind adolescents sleep cycles being different is irrefutable. If you don’t believe me or believe this is simply a matter of opinion… please head over to scholar.google.com and do a search on “adolescent sleep circadian”.

                1. I’m sorry I don’t have research to back up my opinion. It must be wrong.

                   1. If that’s your opinion. Everyone has one.

       2. I always had the dreaded 7:50 am classes at UGA. Cry me a little river please. No wait – I’m not a sissy – and neither are our students! We don’t give them enough credit. – if they want to be a part of athletics and other extracurricular activities they have to be in school when school is in operation. Let’s empower them to be a little bit responsible.

42. Four square miles. What’s wrong with this picture.

    1. No idea. Most of us can walk to the other side of Decatur in 20 minutes or less.

44. ?

46. NO MORE BUSES, or at least 14 is way too many! I just don’t understand why we use so many for such a small area

    1. I think we need some buses, but agree we have WAY too many. And fair warning, if you look at the bus route info posted at CSD website, it might make your head explode. Mine almost did. Ten — count’ em, 10 — elementary school bus routes, with “student loads” ranging from zero to 63. Safe to assume the two with “0” don’t actually operate? What about the one with 4, the one with 5, the one with 6? The “total loads” for five DHS routes range from 2 to 98.

       According to the schedules provided, the bus stop closest to my house has three different buses stop there every morning and every afternoon — including separate buses for Renfroe and DHS that arrive 6 minutes apart!!!!! Maybe that’s not what’s really happening. If it is, though it’s nuts, in my book. Why can’t one bus swing through here and grab all the kids that need to ride it, then drop off at Fifth Avenue, Oakhurst, Renfroe and DHS. I’m asking in all earnestness, why won’t that work?

       I understand that in devising the bus routes, it’s necessary to juggle bus capacity, fluctuating ridership, and safety (not making kids cross busy streets when it can be avoided). And while it looks like they have a lot of stops too close together, IMO the bus drivers should have plenty of latitude to fine-tune exact pickup points each school year, depending on how many and what age children live on a street.

       All of that being said, it really looks to me like the whole thing is more expensive and more complicated than it needs to be and that the reason is so elementary, middle and high school students can ride different buses. If I’m wrong about that, then someone who actually knows the facts, please correct me. But if that is really going on, then it seems like a pretty easy way to reclaim a few dollars and put them to better use.

       1. The good news is that the posted bus route info has no relationship to reality. The bad news is that the posted bus route info has no relationship to reality. I gave up on that info years ago. I check it once quickly every year to see if it’s any better than the previous year. It’s usually identical. At the beginning of every year, some innocent new parent is out at the bus stop desperately holding that route info in one hand and their adorable kindergartener in the other and trying to figure out what’s going on. The rest of us ignore it. The kids have the best sense of where to go and when. Secret CSD bus facebook pages?

       2. I’ve been thinking about whether or not having all K-12 students ride the same bus would help or hurt… And I’ve come to the conclusion that it would require more buses. Check my logic and let me know what you think:

          But if all students ride the same buses, then we need enough buses to hold all bus riding students at once. My conservative estimate of how many buses we would need per school:

          2 – 0-PreK
          4 – K-3
          6 – 4/5
          4 – RMS
          3 – DHS
          ===
          19 buses

          However, we would probably be able to run all the buses close to their maximum passenger capacity. So I’m guessing we’d actually be able to get away with 16-17 buses. Which is still more than we currently use… or any of current proposals.

          1. You must have access to information about how many students actually ride the bus and where they live and which schools they attend. Can you please tell us where that info is available?

             1. The only official data I have access to is the Transportation Fast Facts.pdf at http://www.csdecatur.net/districtnews/I04EBB9C6.2/Transportation%20Fast%20Facts.pdf

                It gives 850 students served on a “snapshot” day. It doesn’t tell us whether or not the snapshot includes 0-PreK. Nor does it give a break down by primary and secondary school students. It doesn’t tell us if that is the high, the low, average… or what. It does tell us that 277 of those students are 4/5.

                I’ve been told off the record that RMS has fewer than 150 bus riders and DHS fewer than 100. By asking bus drivers, I was told that our regular buses have 24 seats and can seat 3 primary or 2 secondary students per seat.

                So what we can say is that primary grade riders represent roughly 70% of bus riders.

                On our regular buses with 24 seats, if we average 15 seats for primary grade students and 9 for secondary students then we can have 63 students per bus roughly matching the 70% primary and 30% secondary school passengers.

                At 100% perfect efficiency… 850 / 63 = 13.5 buses.

                At a more realistic 80% efficiency that would be between 16-17 buses.

48. Just thought you ought to know…
    I was at the high school this afternoon at dismissal. I got a clear look at three buses as they departed. The first appeared to be carrying TWO students. The second was, compared to the first, pretty packed with about 20-25 kids. The third appeared to have about 10 kids.
    Now, maybe I missed something, or maybe today being a bright sunny day depressed ridership. But come on, this is ridiculous. Not exactly maximizing capacity are we?

    @nola: 4 square miles + central location + empty buses = not a pretty picture

50. And another thing….The route mentioned above, that picks up elementary kids in my ‘hood, starts less than 1/4 mi from Oakhurst Elem, travels hither and thither through the SW quadrant, then drops of at Glennwood, then comes back and drops off at Oakhurst. Seriously? Some kids are on that bus for 40+ minutes!

    I think I speak for more than a few childless, school-supporting taxpayers when I say that, while it generally makes sense to leave nuts-and-bolts to the educators and parents to figure out, this really looks silly and wasteful. We don’t care about going to school board meetings, but we will if we have to. Don’t make us come down there!

    1. How about this: All schools start at roughly the same time and we have five buses doing a route that they repeat multiple times over the course of 90 minutes or so. Each route would start in a quadrant of the city, drop off at its elementary school, then Renfroe, then DHS (or then DHS, then Renfroe, depending on the direction it was coming from). No bus route would be much more than a mile and a half and each would be pretty quick.

       Once the route was completed, the driver would go back to the starting point and do it again. There would be limited, official stops within a quarter mile or so of each residence and kids would catch the bus, in the same way people catch the Marta bus. If they want to catch an early run, they do that. If they want to catch a later one, they do that.

       I’m sure there’s a bunch of things I’m not thinking of and the return trips would have to be thought through but it seems like there’s something there. Yes, it puts kids of all ages on the same bus but cutting costs is a give and take operation. Something’s gotta give.

       1. That makes a lot more sense to me than how it’s being done now.

          Aside from the fact that I think all kids should walk to school, no matter how far it is, no matter how early they have to get up, and especially if it’s raining or freezing or sweltering…..what I’d really like to see is (1) more parents feeling like they have viable alternatives to driving their children to school, and (2) more kids having opportunities to get back and forth to school independent of their parents as soon as they’re old enough (which varies, of course, depending on the individual child and where they fall in the birth order of their family and the birth order on their block — clinging to my fantasy that all the kids in town are learning to look out for each other).

    2. The bus rides have been amazingly long for the elementary students ever since the 2004 reconfiguration, partially because of the Glennwood hub and spoke system. Luckily a lot of the little ones think the bus is a great treat and love spending 80 minutes a day pretending they’re at Disneyland. But for the sleepyheads and grumpy little ones, it meant that single child/minivan ridership became the norm.

52. Okay folks, lets get serious about this. NO BUSES FOR THE HIGH SCHOOL! We don’t want them, we don’t need them. Stop wasting $! Later in life, our kids need to be able to shake their walking sticks at younger generations and say things like “I used to walk 2 whole miles in the pouring rain.” 😉 How can we deprive them of this right of elders?

    All kidding aside, just eliminating buses for DHS solves the whole issue. It’s green, it’s cheaper, it’s healthier. It supports and pushes the whole walk and roll to school initiative. Come on. A certain city commissioner should be all over this issue. I don’t buy any state rule about bussing students outside of a mile. CSD gets all kinds of waivers from state rules all the time. Thomas V-S has said that multiple times.

    Regarding start times in college, they vary depending on your scheduled classes. Most of the time I was up for early classes (science student don’t ya know). However, I remember one glorious semester where my first class was at 10! Of course, my last lab let out at 7:30 PM!

    1. Agreed! And let’s move the high school start back to a more reasonable 8:30 so that those students can get their younger brothers and sisters off to school. After-school activities and bus routes should NOT be driving this train — we need to do what is best for students academically.

54. It appears that we have settled the issue. No more buses for high schoolers unless they have a medical or other disability requiring transportation in which case a “short bus’ or van or even a minivan can take care of those few. Therefore, the high school can continue to start and end at its current times.

    So DM–could you please let CSD and the School Board know that they can drop the issue, we’ve fixed for them?

    Thanks. Next task…….school calendar!

    1. Calendar committee meeting is next week…be sure you’re being vocal about your preferences!

56. Neighborhood schools k-5, anyone?

    1. I’d vote for that after having lived the K-3/4-5 scenario since 2004. However, it’s a pipe dream – not gonna happen. We are to solidly into the EL/IB thing, and it would be a nightmare to untangle.

       1. @MrFixIt
          There is nothing in the “EL/IB thing” requiring the current K-3, 4-5 configuration. It can happen at K-5 schools, too (in fact, EL started at Clairemont K-5). Being an official “IB” school has no effect unless it is a high school offering an IB diploma, which approximately 10-15 students will complete per year. IB in the elementary schools and middle school is just nice curriculum, which we could follow without “official” designation.

58. Agree with most of you very smart people here. Grew up in Fl and attended a public high school with 2000 students. Tardy bell rang at 7:15AM. Yes, you read that right. Took major adjustin but we did get used to it eventually. Now whether we could’ve been better, more well-adjusted, happier, smarter people is another story. They will adjust to 8AM if that’s what it comes down to.

    1. Amen!

60. It’s an interesting study in public opinion and the management of it. I think if this had been the first proposal, and based on some community input, then people would have had a few wimpers but lived with it fine. Like someone said above – let’ s get up in arms about 7:30am but 8am, well it might not exactly be the ideal time but oh well.

    But with the back and forth half formed strategies, everyone is over analyzing each incremental scenario, even if they are just fine.

    I think this path was paved with two previous scenarios that lacked grounding in strategy and community input.

    This is fine. Yes fewer buses would be better, more walking, later for the teenagers, better sequencing of schools but I am don’t think it would be worthwhile to get another iteration.

62. Two thoughts:

    Has anyone considered how a high school teacher with kid(s) at the 4/5 Academy , for example, will manage the lag time? If DHS STARTS at 8:00, they’ll have to be in the classroom well before that. Anybody want their 9-10 year old kid sitting outside a school for while waiting for it to open?

    We spend years and a whole lotta tax dollars getting kids ready to excel in…high school. And then we move the start times up, despite massive evidence showing academic performance erosion. And why? To accomodate extra-curriculars.

    Huh?

    1. For the 4/5 kids with parents needing to get to work at a decent hour (which is usually earlier than 9:15 AM, especially if one wants to get home at a decent hour to help with homework and ferry kids to after school activities!), just drop them off somewhere in the Westchester area to join students walking to Fifth Avenue from there (if any) and that will kill 45-60 minutes. If that’s still too early, they can buy breakfast at school and that will kill another 20 minutes.

       I wonder if any of those quaint buildings around Fifth Avenue/Oakview are available to put in a little coffeeshop/before care business. Parents could be sipping their coffee and kids could be finishing up their breakfasts and homework while waiting for Fifth Avenue to open…. 🙂

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