Decatur Gets WSJ Shout-Out
Decatur Metro | October 20, 2010Richard Florida, known for his fairly recent theories on “the creative class” and their clustering in post-industrial cities, wrote an article for the Wall Street Journal a couple weeks back about the qualities of America’s most resilient suburbs during an era where many suburbs are in decline.
In addition to the ongoing conversation about retro-fitting the suburbs to act more like traditional towns, Florida cites existing metropolitan suburbs that have held up well in the malaise of a stagnant economy. According to Florida, these ‘burbs share many basic characteristics, such as dense commercial downtowns, a variety of housing options and are located along old streetcar lines.
Do you know any cities like that?
A 2007 study by Christopher Leinberger found more than 150 walkable towns in America’s 30 largest metro regions—places like Hoboken, Montclair and Princeton, N.J.; Stamford and Greenwich, Conn.; Brookline, Mass.; Bryn Mawr, Pa.; and Royal Oak and Birmingham, Mich. Newer versions of walkable suburbs can be found in regions that developed later, like Palo Alto, Calif.; Boulder, Colo.; Coral Gables, Fla.; Decatur, Ga.; and Clayton, Mo.
These are the places where Americans are clamoring to live and where housing prices have held up even in the face of one of the greatest real-estate collapses in modern memory.
So here’s a question…why is it that old streetcar suburbs are now the hottest thing going? What is it about them that so appeals to the 21st century urbanista?
Thanks to Eva and Louis for forwarding!
Most of us grew up in simpler times, and many in small towns. We learned how to live in these environments and have sought them out as we have established our own households. (At least that’s my excuse.)
As much as I agree with the overall idea, I can’t get past the glaringly obvious shared characteristic that he failed to mention – his examples are mostly college towns. That’s a whole ‘nother story about why they have remained resilient and are popular draws.
Great point. I’ve often wondered what Decatur would be without Emory and ASC.
I’m always amazed at the number of commenters on this site who turn out to be profs.
I’ve always been amazed at how many commenters on here seem to have an advanced understanding of statistics. Now I think I know why.
… 50% of the time…
Excellent point!
Imagine Decatur without the proximity of Emory University, Agnes Scott College and Columbia Theological Universtity.
The staff, faculty, student population adds a nice stable economic boost to our economy even in bad times and I believe they contribute to higher levels of education and income in the general population.
Yep, colleges have a lot to do with towns like Decaturs’ success. A lot of them have also managed to retain that “townie” feel despite attempts to update them to “modern” standards. Commerce Drive I’m lookin’ at you! Beware the city planning de jour!
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A better question may be why these areas thrived despite their defunct streetcars. Maybe it’s an example of transit options being an overstated benefit to succesful communities rather than a primary driver of them.
An interesting argument, but doesn’t that line of reasoning only work if car-based communities developed in a similarly successful manner? Instead, when the car is the focus, we get sprawl.
It seems that the limitations of physical space when it comes to transit and the density it requires, create the most desirable places.
I think Mr. Florida’s observation probably has more to do with book sales and forwarding a political agenda (that is already shared by his readers) than with any actual, provable correlation with reality. Seriously….if you consider yourself part of this elitest ‘creative class’ doesn’t this guy’s opinions mesh remarkably with your own?
Respectfully; this looks to me like just so much liberal red-meat.
I wasn’t even talking about the whole “creative class” argument, which I’m not a huge fan of. I was responding to your previous comment about urban development (cars vs. streetcars).
Are we talking about something else now?
I didn’t mention anything about cars; and actually I found your first response very confusing…so I just cut to the chase with the premise that Florida is preaching to the choir.
Why are Peachtree City and Celebration, Fla omittted? Each are more walkable than Decatur from my experience.
Maybe because a group had the foresight to replace them with a modern form of mass transit, namely, MARTA.
(Playing happily in the World Fountain above our great transit station.)
Hoboken, Montclair, Stamford, and Greenwich are college towns? That’s not how area residents view them.
most·ly [mohst-lee]
–adverb
1.for the most part; in the main: “The work is mostly done.”
2.chiefly; principally.
3.generally; customarily.
I know but Hoboken was listed first! Many things Hoboken is, but a college town….not! And I never heard of Royal Bluff, Birmingham (MI), and Clayton so college town doesn’t come to mind. And I think of retirement and resort when I think of Coral Gables but there’s probably some Florida college there given that Florida has tons of small and large colleges and universities. I guess the list of names just doesn’t shout out “college” to me. In fact, Princeton is the only town that seems like it is primarily a college town vs anything else.
Whatever. Decatur has never felt like a college town although it really ought to be one given Emory, Columbia Seminary, and Agnes Scott. But if it’s those college jobs keeping us stable, I’m all for it.
Well, I thought it was self-evident, and apparently a few others did, too. Especially the list of “newer versions”. Coral Gables is home to U of Miami. Boulder – U of Colorado. Palo Alto – Stanford.
What’s odd about this article is that Richard Florida has made his fame and fortune talking about the creative class, the knowledge worker group that hails from and gravitates to college towns. Then he completely ignores his own book in this article.
Sorry you have never heard of Birmingham, Michigan. A great, walkable city. However, it is not a college town.
I am wondering DM, didn’t we already comment on this thread last week?
Heh?
The streetcar lines were fixed rail with numerous stops. A lot of stops developed small retail nodes that served the local market. Fixed rail meant the transit optionwasn’t likely to leave so shop owners were willing to invest in their locations. Second Avenue is one such route – the tracks went right down the center median. The area around the Flying Biscuit was a streetcar stop. Oakhurst probably has some connections to a stop too.
The big thing was that folks were walking after they left the streetcar so development was denser and distances were kept as short as possible. I bet many of the merchants lived nearby, if not above their stores. There was not much need for garage space as most families probably owned one car – if any at all. So you ended up with short blocks, multiple streets with a good grid pattern, and easy to walk. Just what folks are looking for today.
I’ve always wanted to locate a city planning guide from the 1910-20’s and see what they recommend for “good urban design”. I bet a lot of their “must have’s” are a lot of what planners are trying to retrofit and recreate today.
Not Second Avenue, Fred. You mean Oakview. And, BTW, that streetcar line didn’t actually run into downtown Decatur – it ended at Ansley St behind Agnes Scott. It was called the “South Decatur Line”.
The Oakview Grocery on Oakview near 2nd Ave is the perfect example of streetcar retail. I imagine that was a streetcar stop right there.
I always thought the South Decatur streetcar line continued up S. McDonough to downtown, no? I could swear I’ve seen pictures of a streetcar headed north up S. McDonough.
If not, I wonder why they would have stopped at Agnes Scott?
According to this 1924 map (http://jolomo.net/atlanta/pics/b.076.jpg), the South Decatur line looks like it went south of Agnes Scott but then up Candler to where Trackside is (then out towards Stone Mountain?). I know I’ve seen trolley pictures before on College next to the Depot.
The Main Decatur line seems to have come down Decatur/DeKalb/Howard and done a loop through downtown and Old Decatur via McDonough. Looks like you could switch lines at the Depot.
It’s also pretty neat that some of those lines kept their same number (until the recent cutbacks) over 80 years later. #18 South Decatur, #2 Ponce de Leon.
It did not go up McDonough. Years ago you could still see the grade that it ran on and line of utility poles curving away from where Oakview runs into McDonough, ending at E. Davis. Before the college developed the area south of Ansley, the line would have continued across E. Davis northward to the area beside the old powerplant, then, as Scott’s map shows, east on Ansley to Candler, east on College to Stone Mountain. That line did not go to downtown Decatur.
Also, if you go south on 2nd Ave, look under the bridge right before Memorial. That’s Cottage Grove Ave, where a branch line ran to the Atlanta Athletic Club, now East Lake.
I’ve always wanted to locate a city planning guide from the 1910-20′s and see what they recommend for “good urban design”. I bet a lot of their “must have’s” are a lot of what planners are trying to retrofit and recreate today.
Here you go:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Vitruvius-Architects-Handbook-Civic/dp/0615264093/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287593397&sr=8-1
Mr. Florida doesn’t mention it but driving through southern states, off the interstate, I’ve noticed that the county seats tend to have more charm and more life than other towns. With absolutely no evidence, I’ve decided that the County Courthouses needed banks, lunchrooms, post offices, lawyers offices, title companies, barbers, even bail bondsmen and other potential employers. I guess this comment has jumped the streetcar tracks, but it seems sort of relevant.
Also, does anyone else see irony in Mr. Florida’s name?
County governments weren’t that big in the olden days. I think it was the other way around. In the small, rural community where I grew up, the commercial district clustered around the courthouse square beginning in the early 19th century and thriving through the 1960s. (It’s been much, much quieter since the late ’70s with many empty storefronts, but the community is fighting to revitalize.) Anyhow, there weren’t THAT many people working in the courthouse in the 1830s. Without consulting the town archives (wish I had time right now), I’d say they put the county seat in the most commercially vibrant settlement in the county, and then a virtuous circle was launched–the presence of the courthouse and the mercantile community reinforced each other. (Has anybody else noticed how tricky it is to use “stimulus” or variants thereof, in polite discourse?) One reason I feel sure about this, is that when I was very young–very, very young–Saturday was still the busiest day uptown, i.e., on the Square. That’s when everybody came in from the country, and obviously they weren’t coming to transact business at the courthouse.
IMO the main thing that helped many of those county seat communities hang onto their charm–which, I agree with Parker, is considerable in many cases–was that Large-Scale Development passed them by. (Decatur is special because although it became surrounded by metro Atlanta, it never was absorbed by it.) LSD made a few forays into Decatur but fortunately the city mothers and fathers kept their wits about them and got a handle on it before the whole downtown area got razed. Now we have to figure out how to entice developers to operate on our terms, but the REALLY big challenge is figuring out what those terms should be.
“So here’s a question…why is it that old streetcar suburbs are now the hottest thing going? What is it about them that so appeals to the 21st century urbanista?”
If a suburb (Decatur , for instance) is within the reach of a now-defunct streetcar line, it generally means the suburb is close to a downtown business center (say, Atlanta), so if you lived in such a suburb and worked downtown, you wouldn’t t have to drive very far to get to your job in one of the tall buildings in the urban center where every morning you feel as if you’re pulling a fast one on the world, and sometimes you get nervous that the whole charade will come crashing down and everyone will see right through your Jos. A Bank camel hair blazer you bought during a once-in-a-lifetime sales event you heard about on the radio, only to realize the same sales event was announced with the same breathless amazement almost every week on the same radio station, and so your deal wasn’t really a deal at all, it was just the normal price basically, and everyone will know you have no idea what you’re doing, ahhh, maybe if you got some glasses you’d look smarter and it would buy you a couple more years, that’s all you need really, enough time to sock away some money and then you can quit and become a high school English teacher, or maybe open a pub or something, ]no, who are you kidding, you can’t do that, not with this mortgage and car payments, dear god. . . .
Of course, Winnona Park Stud hikes to his gig at the Donzi landfill, striking out every morning at 5:00 a.m. But if one were to work an office job in downtown ATL, it would probably be a commute of 7 miles and less than 20 minutes from a neighborhood (Winnona Park, for instance) in Decatur. Suburbs and short interstate-free commutes to city centers rarely correlate, except when a suburb used to be on a streetcar line.
That’s the funniest thing I’ve read on here since writerchad’s epic work a couple weeks ago. Well done, WPS!
Scott, thanks to the link to the design book – I just ordered a copy. I appreciate the the help.
Steve, you’re right, the line did go down Oakview. And I should have remembered that. Back in the late 70’s when the East Line was getting built, MARTA asked my store, Bicycle South, to map some bike routes to the stations around here. They produced a very nice map with the routes and parking racks, but unfortunately I’ve lost what copies I thought I’d saved.
One of those routes was along Oakview (the route went to the E. Lake station). I remember riding the section leading out of Oakhurst and thinking what a nice stretch of road it was and where the median came from. I later learned that was where the streetcar ran.
A friend of mine has a short piece in an old home movie of hers that shows the streetcar coming up N. McDonough and turning for Atlanta. It was in late 50’s and I think it’s N. McDonough – I can ask her.
Had to be earlier than the late 50s. I think the last streetcar ran in 1948 or 49.