Wal-Mart Goes Urban
Decatur Metro | June 25, 2010 | 10:27 amWal-Mart in the city? “That’s unpossible!”, to quote the great Ralph Wigham.
Of course, nothing’s unpossible when a publicly traded company’s current business model stops offering opportunity for delicious growth. Mmmm…growth.
According to this morning’s New York Times, Wal-Mart has finally gotten approval to build a store in Chicago’s South Side and has big plans – or should I say “little plans” – to start setting up shop in urban centers across the nation.
If Wal-Mart can succeed in the urban market, that could mean several hundred stores just in major cities like New York, Chicago and Detroit, bringing several hundred million dollars in additional earnings, analysts said.
To fit into cities, Wal-Mart is proposing to make itself more trial-size. It would shrink its stores to as small as 8,000 square feet, about 4 percent of the size of an average supercenter. It is considering formats that are primarily groceries, stores where customers can order something online and pick it up, stores where local business owners can lease space, and even formats like bodegas.
There’s also word that the big-box retailer has agreed to pay its Chicago workers 50 cents more than the city’s minimum wage.
So, here’s your noodle-scratcher for the morning: if Wal-Mart came before the Decatur City Commission and proposed to build the most awesome mixed-use property you’ve ever seen – of which they would be a part – and agreed to pay slightly better than minimum wage to its workers, would you support it?
h/t: Otis White
Don’t think I could support it in Decatur. I’m not vehemently anti-Wal-Mart, but I can’t tell you how many times I heard the words “independent businesses” at the strategic planning round tables. To have the world’s largest retail corporation set up shop would just go against the entire direction of our city over the past 20 years. Plus, there’s no need. A short trip down Memorial Drive and you can do all the Wal-Mart shopping your heart desires.
Considering there’s already a nice new location (for a Wal-Mart) just south of Decatur, I’d say no.
I’d be down for a Target, though I wonder what they’re employee compensation is like compared to Wal-Mart? Cities seem to have no problem allowing Target to build in urban areas…
Despite myths to the contrary, Target is no better than Wal Mart and per my mother who worked her way from assistant manager all the way up to designing the electronics departments for every single store in the nation for Wal Mart without a college education, the benefits and opportunities offered at Wal Mart are better by far. She is no Wal Mart cheerleader and prefers Target herself for shopping. But the big box is the big box, getting away with whatever it can for the almighty profit. Anyone who boycotts Wal Mart and shops at Target is fooling themselves.
Not that I would be totally surprised if it were true, but could you provide some specifics?
And then why do people at Target seem happier than their Wal-Mart counterparts?
I don’t agree about the workers being happier- I chat with several cashiers a lot and I hear pretty rough things- at the one on Edgewood the manager is apparently a terror and fires people to make examples out of them and moves them off jobs they enjoy to keep them off balance. One dear lady who helped me through my pregnancy is in constant fear of being fired because she has had to reduce her hours because of physical disability. I am not saying Wal Mart is better- I am saying all the stores are the same and we shouldn’t be fooling our selves.
This article sums up the “differences” between the stores pretty well.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13508
Of course, btw, I know what my friends in the store tell me is just hearsay and possibly disgruntle employees, but apparently not be friendly and perky can get you fired at Target, just like it can at Starbucks.
Folks would be real surprised by the stringent expectations placed on the workers in corporate retail environments. It’s not just a matter of ringing on a register or stocking merchandise. It’s the responsibility of each store’s management team to create a positive & motivating atmosphere. Definitely a very interesting dynamic to watch for when shopping. (And a smile or compliment is appreciated by employees at any level.)
[Somebody’s doing something right at the new Walmart. Seems like I’ve been offered or given help on almost every visit, and I’ve not had a bad check-out experience yet. Recent Target experiences -several locations- haven’t been up to usual standards. The other good thing about the new Walmart is it fits nicely with the Valu Village, Huge Dollar Tree, Aldi trip.]
* Good article. Nelliebelle. Thanks for link.
The one thing I cannot buy in Decatur is children’s shoes beyond the baby/toddler/preschool sizes. Could WalMart or Target provide a downsized version of their stores with just the departments we are lacking?
Not a chance. In fact I’m thinking of moving if there’s another lot line, faux stucco masterpiece built in Decatur.
Modern developers don’t seem to able to build anything else and even then they need all the variances that campaign contributions can buy.
In my opinion the downturn was the best thing that happened to Decatur from an aesthetic standpoint. It put the brakes on more crap buildings.
hmm. good question
Can the city refuse a compliant development proposal based on the developer’s past reputation?
(spoiler…I hope so)
Their historic behavior…
low employee wages
exploiting undocumented workers
surveillance and retribution of union activities
forced unpaid overtime
ugly, sprawled out, autocentric architecture
treating community safety nets as the official employee benefit package
demanding property tax breaks then moving just outside the city limits when they expire
making their abandoned commercial property unusable (& untaxable)
If all these concerns are met then that leaves the big one…
killing the local business community with those sweet low low prices.
Not sure what to do about that one. As it is a basic business model of large scale purchasing.
Chinese demographic changes and transportation costs are weakening the old Walmart model but that will take another 10 years to sink in.
The situation with the Big H in Oakhurst is so ridiculous that yes, I’d be cool with a Wal-Mart anchored mixed use redevelopment of that site. Anything to break the logjam there.
I’d be much cooler with other anchor tenants, of course, especially locally owned, but Target/Wal-Mart would serve a huge need here – general retail.
Yes, depending on how they adapt their store to fit the location and the community’s needs. Independent businesses are fine, but if a national chain can come in and offer a service or product the community wants and provide jobs and tax revenue, there’s no reason to automatically reject their inclusion as part of the community. Boutiques are fine, but Decatur could stand to have a few more businesses like the national ones that have a presence in the city – like Wachovia, Kroger, etc. I for one dream (hopelessly) of a Whole Foods or Fresh Market in Oakhurst at that largely-abandoned shopping center.
I’m not vehemently anti-WW, either (disclosure: close family member works in their accounting dept), but given the fairly close proximity of no less than two of their stores, I’d say no. Target, maybe (albeit there’s one not too far away on North Druid Hills)…have to hink about this one some more.
Good comments thus far. Here’s a follow-up question:
How would a Wal-Mart in downtown Decatur affect the city’s local businesses? Would it help or hinder? Ridge believes that the “sweet low low prices” would kill Decatur’s local businesses. But don’t our local businesses already compete with Wal-Mart price competition everyday? How many local Decatur businesses sell items you can also buy at Wal-Mart?
I doubt it would hinder in the same way it tends to decimate small towns because, in those instances, the downtown businesses that get killed are the ones supplying people’s daily/weekly/monthly needs. Wal-Mart just duplicates and augments their product offerings and undercuts them on price.
Here in Decatur, for better or for worse (try buying socks and underwear here), most of our retail is already geared towards the kind of niche products Wal-Mart doesn’t compete on. So I think impact — on our existing retail — would be minimal. However, a Wal-Mart catchment area is pretty darn big, which means it would be pulling auto traffic from quite a ways away, so its impacts on other things we care about, like walkable/bikeable streets, would be a different story.
That’s the main point, and it’s something that my focus group talked about – we don’t have the “basics” covered in terms of retail in this town. You can get a Guinness at 20 different places, ditto a spring roll or a burrito, but heaven forbid you need a pair of socks.
And the independent, mom-and-pop segment of the market has not come in to fill this vacuum, for whatever reason.
If this is how it’s going to be, then yes, big box retailers bringing small formats here is a good option.
That was my general thought too. Not too much in Decatur that duplicates Wal-Marts products. All I could think of off the top o’ my head was greeting cards, but I’d still buy my cards from Heliotrope or 17 Steps, even if there was an urban Wal-Mart around the corner. Most people that would rather by their cards at a big box probably already do it already.
Would an 8,000 foot Wal-Mart really pull in that much traffic? Maybe. Regardless, the auto traffic issue is an good point that should be considered.
You’re kidding, right? Lotta stuff WalMart sells that would compete with Decatur, groceries, hardware, clothing, books, liquor, tires, shoes. Sure, shopping at Walmart may save money in the short term, but if it wipes out local businesses and gets a stranglehold on employment in an area, it’s not good for a community. I’ve never been to the new Walmart, and I’m a certified cheapskate. Can’t bring myself to do it.
I’m not kidding. I’m actually kinda dense sometimes.
I’ll give you books, liquor and shoes…though I believe anyone that would buy that stuff at a big-box already does.
As for clothes, Decatur boutiques sell a very different product, no?
And groceries and hardware? What local independent, walkable downtown business sells those things?
I don’t love the idea of Walmart in Decatur either, but I DO love challenging my gut reactions to things.
How is competition in selling books/hardware/etc a bad thing? I can already order almost any book from Amazon, so it’s not like keeping Wal-Mart out of Decatur will limit my options to local book stores.
I guess you could argue that it’s not the competition that’s bad, it’s the government-built automobile infrastructure on which companies are forced to compete on – which is determining the outcome even before the competitive match is played – that’s the problem.
If there was a bit more financial support OR other existing, viable alternative methods for getting around, then yeah, let the corner store compete with the big box.
“But what we have now is the result of market demand, no?”
Um, not really. The Fed built the highways because of nuclear threat and the GI Bill offered low-interest, no down payment mortgages to all vets, tipping the scales in favor of sprawl and sending folks out into the suburbs.
So, it’s not the competition that I have an issue with, it’s really the playing field we’re forced to play on that creates places I’m not too fond of (not to mention that it’s expensive to maintain, an inefficient energy model and very unsympathetic to anyone who can’t drive), that doesn’t sit well with me.
Not sure I follow. If you built a WalMart in downtown Decatur, it would be within walking distance of MARTA. So how would all the public money pumped into road building give Walmart an unfair advantage? Or am I missing something?
I don’t really favor a Wal mart here, particularly. Just asking.
Sorry…didn’t complete my thought.
Even though a fantastical Decatur Wal-Mart would be in a rare position of walkability, the chain itself would enjoy all the economies of scale (for all the reasons mentioned above) which would allow them to undercut the prices set by the small business owners in town.
Not exactly a level playing field in which to encourage healthy competition.
“Lotta stuff WalMart sells that would compete with Decatur, groceries, hardware, clothing, books, liquor, tires, shoes.”
Groceries? The only grocery store in Decatur is the Little Kroger and I thought everyone agreed they could use some competition.
Hardware? While the Scott Ace is far better than the one on College, a little competition would not be bad for either of these places. If I just need a hammer, I’ll probably go to the one I can get in and out of fastest.
Clothing, books, shoes? I don’t think the type of stores Decatur has in these areas (very much specialty shops) would compete with Wal-Marts low priced, low quality options. If I want a personal fitting for running shoes I’ll got to Fleet Feet or Big Peach. Not Wal-Mart.
Tires? Didn’t the Good Year on Clairemont get busted for ripping people off recently?
Liquor? Liquor stores are prohibited by law in the Decatur City Limits. The Avondale Wal-Mart does not sell beer or wine.
@DM – They’d never do their smallest 8,000 sq. ft. model here. That scale could only work in very high urban densities. A lower density place like Decatur would need to pull car traffic from further away to hit the necessary number of rooftops.
@Diane – The difference is that our local retailers in any of the categories you mention are already accustomed to competing against big-box outlets. We’ve got 6 or 8 large grocery stores within a few miles; Target; B&N; Borders; a couple Home Depots and a Lowes. That’s quite different than the small town scenario where Mom and Pops wake up one day and don’t know what hit ’em.
Decatur’s boutique and beer based economy would be somewhat resilient, but CVS, baby Kroger, Smith’s Hardware, Intown ACE and even Sherlock’s would be in the crosshairs.
What is Sherlock’s?
What Cook’s Warehouse calls their wine section, which is absurdly overpriced and needs some competition.
Maybe that’s been used before and I missed it, but I love that description of Decatur:
“Our boutique and beer based economy…”
Well done, Ridgelandistan.
I suppose a parallel would be that we’ve got a Starbucks within spitting distance of Java Monkey. How are those businesses doing?
no to Wal-Mart, but I need a real grocery, not a baby one to walk to, a place to buy sports equipment/socks and sneaks that don’t cost an arm and a leg; and a downtown Decatur annex of Intown Hardware. thinking about that, we really need a good lacrosse/soccer place in downtown decatur ….
Could we make it a good lacrosse/soccer/basketball place? No matter where I take my son for basketball shoes–Foot Locker, Dick’s, Sports Authority–it never seems to have what he wants.
I want an old fashioned variety store downtown. All sorts of nifty & handy things to buy, including sports equipment. Get them to stock a couple of basic clothing brands & shoes, plus socks & underwear, and we’d be set.
Wow, this is what I want too. But do variety stores have a chance anymore? I’ve seen them at upscale beach resort/retirement areas. And there’s some catalogs that fill that bill. But can one sell enough in Decatur to justify the wide range of items it would have to stock? Actually, Intown Ace Hardware on Scott is getting pretty darn close to a variety store. When in doubt, if looking for an obscure item that you might have to call all over town before driving to a mall to find it, e.g. lime green fluorescent duct tape or a certain kind of doormat or an unusual kitchen tool, check there first.
It could be done VERY successfully with smart decisions made up front. Focus on time honored classics for the clothing & shoes (Levis, Duck Head, Dickies & Keds, Converse, Timberland could all be good fits.) Provide good basic items in categories like office & beauty for convenience, but don’t invest in too wide of an assortment because you can’t match the big boys. (Although a Dollar Rama aisle would be an attractive loss leader to keep folks stopping by.) Instead, put money into niche areas with appeal- Sporting Goods, Housewares/Hardware with handy to have items (& stuff you didn’t know you needed!), Classic Toys & Games. And definitely play up the cool & retro items throughout! Everybody has memories of clutching their allowance & carefully going aisle by aisle in search of just the right purchase, right? It’d be fun to do it again- and to turn a whole new generation onto it too!
( Intown has some real gems! THE place to go for stuff like Zud, 20 Mule Team Borax, & belts/filters for vacuum cleaners. Hopefully, Smith Ace”s revamping will have them bringing back items like these too.)
You should do this! You have a sense of what merchandise would be needed. I think I’ve got some good ideas on children’s shoes that all families need. Now all we need is investors willing to take a risk on us and a space.
I remember going to the toy section of a big box store and clutching my little precious moments checkbook, anticipating writing my check for an $8 barbie!
Richard’s Variety Store seems to do good business. The Peachtree Battle location has been there forever and they opened a second location next to Trader Joe’s near Piedmont Park so it looks like variety stores are able to survive with the right people running them in the right location. Getting them to open a Decatur location would probably be good for everyone. The only problem is that since they are a small business and recently opened a second location, they might not have access to the capital needed for a third store.
The one time I was in the store at the Trader Joe’s location, I loved it. But it’s never open when I happen to be in the area which is usually to see a movie at the Landmark. I’d love it if they opened a location in Decatur.
Yes!!! Richard’s Variety would be great! And if they’d add our merchandise suggestions, then it’d be super duper great! C’mon money folks! This is a winner!
( I also love that Richard’s Variety is a sponsor of 1690AM, the really cool radio station out of Avondale. Maybe we can lure them both here! )
*karass- Thanks for this fun project to mull over while weeding! Time flew! :0)
*nelliebelle- Awwwww! Precious Moments checks AND Barbies! Combined? Big Smile! :0)
As long as the downtown annex of Intown Ace is owned and operated by the same folks. I *heart* Ace! I truly enjoy shopping/running errands there. Talk about great service. . . . And they are very supportive of the community. Love ’em!
Am I missing something? It isn’t in Decatur proper, but there is this thing called Edgewood Retail District.
It has everything that everyone is thread desires. It also happens to be well within biking distance and directly on the commute path of a lot of Decaturites.
The pro and con is that Decatur doesn’t have the monstrosity but also doesn’t collect the property taxes. Sometimes the solution to our problems are found outside of Decatur.
You know Bryan, that’s a pretty damn good thought there.
Good luck to those who will bike around this area. I tried it once to the Target shopping center – too dangerous for me – even in the parking lot. It is like the wild west – drivers all in a hurry trying to ace each other out for parking spaces. I walk to many of my shopping destinations but I won’t bike beyond my few neighborhood streets.
One point about the large retailers considering urban concepts is that maybe these don’t have to be monstrosities . Given the current state of the economy and the ever increasing cost of running the City and CSD, the lack of property taxes is a pretty big CON.
I don’t think WM would bother putting a store in Decatur proper, given that they’ve got a pretty big investment in the “Decatur” store five miles away.
Which is room for a question I’ve been pondering – how much of that WM’s business is from Decatur proper? And what, if any, are the objections from people in Decatur Proper – is it a “screw Wal-Mart” thing or is it a “Don’t feel like driving the extra ten minutes” thing?
(full disclosure: I shop there all the time because it’s within walking distance of my house, usually to supplement stuff from YDFM.)
The Walmart on Columbia is one mile from the Decatur line, i. e. Friend’s School.
It’s a delicate issue, but I vote for more mainstream vendors in downtown. Bring more people and their energy in. It will ultimately help the moms & pops. It will even help the few current vendors who compete with the big boxes’ merchandise because at least the customers will be walking the same block instead of 4 miles away in Edgewood. But, architectural integrity and street atmosphere must not be compromised.
This was my emphasis at the Roundtable- City Government needs to get serious about retail revival: major battle plan, eminent domain, do what it takes to get the magnet entity in place to start the momentum.
Face reality. On most daily items, independents will never be able to purchase wholesale for what the big boxes sell them for. It is the times we live in. Fair Trade was declared unconstitutional a long time ago.
If they want to come to Decatur and they find a site they like that is properly zoned, they can come – regardless of the amount of NIMBY sniveling.
I’m just biding my time until DM manages to get the Decatur Metro Grocery Co-op off the ground!
The Edgewood Retail district is just to the west of our city limits and an easy bike ride away. Or you can take the train one stop from East Lake west to Candler Park and walk 5 minutes to all the big box (and to be fair, many small box) stores you may desire. Plus a faux downtown urban design in parts of the district center. I have read that the Kroger and Target there are the highest grossing stores of their type in metro ATL, which shows how underserved the close-in east side neighborhoods are (were).
My mom is sitting right here so I asked her about this. Wal Mart stores have to have a concentration of 20,000 in a five mile radius from a store. Our population was taken into account when the Memorial store was built. The urban model is for truly urban areas- not our square and certainly not with a Supercenter one mile away and the city only a few miles across. The 8,000 sq ft model is only a convenience store model; she isn’t even sure if those are going forward because they have not been successful. Of course, she is retired but she’s only been retired 3 months, so I hopefully I am passing along good info!
That’s 20,000 households, not 20,000 people, right?
Nope, people, according to my mom.